Can horses Spider Climb?

[RainOfSteel]

Do you require humans to remove gloves and shoes before using spider climb? It's functionally the same thing here.

The spell's description does say the subject's hands must be free. I can't seem to locate a game definition of what that is, though. I've always assumed bare hands.

In a game where you have flying unicorns, I find it a bit wierd how people can have a major hangup about training a horse to climb walls with magic.

It isn't that I find it impossible to believe that a horse can go up a wall. I just think spider climb isn't up to the task.

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As regards spiders being vermin, you're right.

 

[KarinsDad]

The spell's description does say the subject's hands must be free. I can't seem to locate a game definition of what that is, though. I've always assumed bare hands.

As in a hand with a ring on it is not bare?

I think your definition is ticky tac. A free hand means one not holding anything, not one in a glove or with a ring on it, etc. The usage occurs in the PHB multiple times. Rings and Gloves do not stop spell casters from casting spells.

It isn't that I find it impossible to believe that a horse can go up a wall. I just think spider climb isn't up to the task.

Why not? It's magic. It actually grants a Climb Speed, even if the creature normally does not have one. Granted, it does state "hands free", but the vast majority of creatures do not have hands. For example, a Skeleton does not have a hand (it has hand bones).

Another way of looking at this is:

Does the Horse have its hands free? Yes. It has no hands to have "not free".

The subject gains a climb speed of 20 feet

If a spell gave the ability to use a weapon for creature touched, then a horse could do that too. I think you are envisioning this spell with too "real world" colored glasses on.

 

[werk]

The spell's description does say the subject's hands must be free. I can't seem to locate a game definition of what that is, though. I've always assumed bare hands.

I always thought it meant not carrying something, so they could open their hands and use them for walking rather than carrying...like a horse normally would.

It isn't that I find it impossible to believe that a horse can go up a wall. I just think spider climb isn't up to the task.

Interesting. Do you have a weight limit on spider climb, or is there some other reason?

 

[RainOfSteel]

Interesting. Do you have a weight limit on spider climb, or is there some other reason?

Up-topic I pointed out that I think spider climb should be restricted to medium-size creatures. I have never played it that way. I don't know that I will change the spell for my purposes, but this topic is making me think about it.

As it stands, spider climb could work on a creature at the top of the scale. A Colossal creature weighs in at 125+ tons, and it could use the spell.

To my way of thinking, that is not right.

 

[gvbezoff]

I grew up on a thoroughbred horse farm - breeding and training horses. I can guarantee you that, without sufficient training, a horse will freak out and injure or kill itself if you try to get it to Spider Climb. Without magical aid, you might be able to train it to climb vertical surfaces in 3 to 6 months, and it might actually survive doing so without breaking its legs, but more likely it will break a leg and need to be euthanised. Hanging from a ceiling by its hooves is definitely going to injure the horse, as its limbs (unlike humans, who are descended from brachiating creatures) are not designed to support its 1200+ pounds in that manner. A horse's fetlock is thinner than a large man's wrist, and is often injured when the horse runs right-side-up. With druidical help, you could train the horse more quickly, but any ethical druid would refuse to do it because of the risk of injury to the horse.

Even if you do get the horse to Spider Climb, there is no way you are going to ride it without Spider Climb to stick your feet to the stirrups, thereby increasing the unnatural load on the horse's legs, pretty much ensuring injury and death.

Other animals with stronger limbs in relation to their weight (such as wolves) or that naturally climb (such as bears) can probably be taught to Spider Climb with relatively little risk of injury. It just won't work with horses - they aren't built for it. The horse's walk is a four-beat gait, meaning that each leg briefly supports the horse's entire weight. Hang a 1200 pound weight from your wrist and see what happens - that's what will happen to the horse every step. Imagine wrapping a chain around a horse's fetlock and hoisting the horse aloft by that chain. Goodbye horse.

 

[gvbezoff]

The real question is, "Will Spider Climb work on a dolphin?"

 

[Wolfwood2]

I grew up on a thoroughbred horse farm - breeding and training horses. I can guarantee you that, without sufficient training, a horse will freak out and injure or kill itself if you try to get it to Spider Climb. Without magical aid, you might be able to train it to climb vertical surfaces in 3 to 6 months, and it might actually survive doing so without breaking its legs, but more likely it will break a leg and need to be euthanised. Hanging from a ceiling by its hooves is definitely going to injure the horse, as its limbs (unlike humans, who are descended from brachiating creatures) are not designed to support its 1200+ pounds in that manner. A horse's fetlock is thinner than a large man's wrist, and is often injured when the horse runs right-side-up. With druidical help, you could train the horse more quickly, but any ethical druid would refuse to do it because of the risk of injury to the horse.

See, I never pictured Spider Climb as causing creatures to "hang", still having to deal with gravity without aid. I mean, it's got to do more than just make your hands and feet sticky, right? The ease and speed with which creatures using the spell can climb implies more aid then that. Note that it doesn't provide a bonus to Climb checks; instead you don't even have to make climb checks any more!

Sometimes I picture it as sort of a localized redirection of gravity, where 'down' becomes whatever direction your hands and feet are pressed against. If it works like that, I can't see why a horse would be troubled.

 

[Notmousse]

See, I never pictured Spider Climb as causing creatures to "hang", still having to deal with gravity without aid. I mean, it's got to do more than just make your hands and feet sticky, right? The ease and speed with which creatures using the spell can climb implies more aid then that. Note that it doesn't provide a bonus to Climb checks; instead you don't even have to make climb checks any more!

Sometimes I picture it as sort of a localized redirection of gravity, where 'down' becomes whatever direction your hands and feet are pressed against. If it works like that, I can't see why a horse would be troubled.

That wasn't in the description? I could've sworn it was always like that. I mean sure if you jumped off gravity took over, but as long as you were on the surface you just didn't come off.

 

[Hussar]

OTOH, I might allow an unshod horse the spell to receive a climb bonus on steep grades without special tricks or training, provided the spellcaster can get the horse to eat the components (somehow).

Get a horse to eat something. yeah, that's tricky. Good grief, horse's will eat pretty much anything. Stuff it in an apple and you're good to go.

As far as injury goes - well, let's not get too carried away with physics shall we? I'm pretty sure that most people wearing plate mail and whatnot would have trouble walking up the side of a wall and then hanging upside down. Getting that far into things is perhaps a bit errrr nonsensical.

 

[D.Shaffer]

Spider Climb grants you a climb ability, no qualifications beyond the fact your 'hands are free'. As a magic spell, I have a hard time believing all the people who want to extrapolate how it interacts with reality. Could a horse walk up a wall in RL? No. But the magic lets them do it.

To me, it's like someone trying to argue that shocking grasp would be useless as the electricity in the casters hands should char them and possible cause heart failure as it tries to ground through your feet.