Can I charge and tumble?

[Destil]

A charge is a full round action. It is NOT a move action followed by an attack action. Although it involves "movement", no part of it is a move action or a move-equivalent action. It is not "normal movement". Ergo, you cannot tumble as part of a charge.

[I assume this is being used by smart-arse monks and rogues who are attempting to get to the chief villain at the back of the fight without provoking attacks of opportunity while they do it. There are other ways to achieve this objective without attempting to bend the rules.]

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

I think you're misinterpreting normal movement. In fact, note that it's "as part of normal movement" not "only with normal movement" or something. The clause was placed there in order to specify that this isn't any sort of action, it's part of your existing movement, regardless of how you achieve that movement. Note it's also not "as part of a normal move action". This is not meant to convey that you can't use tumble if your movement isn't 'normal', because 'normal' movement is never defined at all, and assuming it requires a move equivalent action or movement as part of a standard is a stab in the dark.

Tumble is there exactly for rogues / monks to get around in combat, because they lack the HP to survive many AoOs and require mobility.

 

[Artoomis]

I think you're misinterpreting normal movement. In fact, note that it's "as part of normal movement" not "only with normal movement" or something. The clause was placed there in order to specify that this isn't any sort of action, it's part of your existing movement, regardless of how you achieve that movement. Note it's also not "as part of a normal move action". This is not meant to convey that you can't use tumble if your movement isn't 'normal', because 'normal' movement is never defined at all, and assuming it requires a move equivalent action or movement as part of a standard is a stab in the dark.

Tumble is there exactly for rogues / monks to get around in combat, because they lack the HP to survive many AoOs and require mobility.

That's an excellent point. One might argue that NOT allowing tumble with charge is somehwat nerfing the rodgue/monk classes. Especially the monk class where effectiveness and survival is based, to a large extent, on better movement in combat than other classes.

 

[Krail Stromquism]

Tumble-rama!

So if you do allow it what modifiers are there applied to the Tumble check?

Charge gives a -2 to AC, would you apply that to the tumble check?

Sense Charge is this all out attack sort of thing, Id double the AC penalty and apply it to the Tumble Check, then tack on -2 for every opponent after the first that they are thrying to get buy, or Threat ranges they are trying to go thru at once. So if two enemies are side by side and the monk/rogue goes traight between them they would have -4 for the Charge plus another -2 for going thru space covered in 2 creatures Threatened Area for a total of Minus 6.

I think this is a great idea to make some Feats based on.
Acrobatic Charge
Jumping the Line
Tiger Leaps Mountain

stuff like that.

In this same line of thought, dont you think that Magic Items that increase the Tumble Skill are too cheap compared to others? For 2000gp you could get a Ring of Tumbling thatd give you +10 to your tumble checks! so at around 3rd to 5th level rogues and Monks could be bouncing past or around everyone!

This line of thought has lead me to opposed Tumble checks instead of Hit this DC = automatic success.

just some thoughts

 

[Petrosian]

i would not allow tumbling during a charge because the two maneuvers seem at odds with each other.

A charge is a straightline rush with an AC penalty because you are not able to dodge as much. You leave yourself more open to attacks with the rush.

Tumble is using evasive maneuvers to defend against leaving openings to attacks.

 

[Artoomis]

i would not allow tumbling during a charge because the two maneuvers seem at odds with each other.

A charge is a straightline rush with an AC penalty because you are not able to dodge as much. You leave yourself more open to attacks with the rush.

Tumble is using evasive maneuvers to defend against leaving openings to attacks.

Allowing it with circumstance penalties seems to be the way to go to me.
Now a monk still might be able to tumble and charge pretty much at will without drawing AoO's, but that's the sort of thing monks are supposed to be able to do !

 

[Dr. NRG]

If you allow it, give the same kinds of penalties that you get when you try to charge while moving silently (I think that's minus 20, if I recall correctly).

Very few people should be able to pull of a Barry Sanders-like weaving, dodging charge through opposition, and even then they shouldn't be able to do it easily.

Also keep in mind the distance limit on how far you're allowed to tumble per round (no books on hand, but I do believe it's 15 feet total). Even if they move double their normal move, only 15 feet of it (or the specified amount, if I've mis-remembered) should be tumbling movement.

On a meta-game note, tumbling is good enough as it is. On that basis alone, I might rule against allowing this, were I the DM.

NRG

 

[Olive]

Here's what I wrote tot he Sage:

If a monk PC is charging an NPC with a reach weapon, can the monk make a tumble check to move within the reach weapons threatened area in order to avoid an AoO?

And here's what he wrote back:

You have to move in a straight line to charge, If you DM decides that tumbling is moving in a straight line (and most DMs I know do), then a tumbling charge is possible.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

And yes Me as a DM rules that it is a straight line. My circumstance penalties for it are double the penalties I'd give to tumbling in those spaces anyways. (I fairly aggresively use the Song&Silence penalty list), to a minimum of -5. Those who think tumble is unbalnced already could just say no, or give even worse penalties. Me I applied a "fix" to tumble so I don't feel the ened to make the penalties obscene.

 

[doktorstick]

But, if you are weaving and doging are you moving in a straight line?

Lines, in DND, are 5-ft. wide when referring to movement. Weaving and dodging can be withing that 5-ft. area. Just as someone charging can be zig-zagging within that 5-ft. The rules don't cover it. To me "weaving and dodging" is flavor text--nothing more. I would allow a "straight line tumble" as part of a charge.

/ds