Can I charge and tumble?

[Artoomis]

Here's some facts to chew on to decide if you can or cannot tumble and charge at the same time:

From the FAQ:

Tumbling is part of movement, not a separate action. You can tumble any number of times during a move action, so long your speed. Each time you tumble, you make a separate Tumble check, using whatever DC is applicable at the time. If you tumble during a double move, you'e allowed 20 feet of tumbling as part of each move action.If you're using the Spring Attack feat, you're taking a move action and the attack action, so you're moving once and can tumble a maximum of 20 feet as part of that single move. You could, however, tumble both before and after the attack.

From the SRD, Tumble:

...Tumble up to 20 feet (as part of normal movement)...

Charge [Full][AoO: Yes]

Description: The combatant must move before attacking, not after. The combatant must move at least 10 feet and may move up to double base speed. All movement must be in a straight line, with no backing up allowed. The charge stops as soon as the combatant threatens the target. A combatant can't run past the target and attack from another direction.

After moving, the combatant may make a single melee attack or a bull rush. The combatant gets a +2 bonus on the attack roll. The combatant also suffers a -2 penalty to AC for 1 round.

A lance deals double damage if employed by a mounted combatant in a charge.

A target can ready certain piercing weapons, setting them to receive charges by using the ready action against receiving a charge. A weapon of this type deals double damage if the readied attack is successful.

The real question is if the movment during charge is "normal movement" or not. That all depends on what you think "normal movement" means. One could argue that it means a "move action," in which case perhpas you can't tumble and charge.

It's a judgement call with no really clear-cut guidance in the rules. You can easily justify either position within the rules.

The new version (?) of Tumble from d20 modern is different:

Tumble past Opponents: With a successful Tumble check (DC 20), the character can weave, dodge, and roll up to 20 feet through squares adjacent to opponents, risking no attacks of opportunity. Failure means the character moves as planned, but provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.

Under this version you could use it with charge, as the language about "normal movement" is removed.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I don't think it should be possible, without special training (e.g. PrC or feat). A charge is a clumsy thing, which is reflected by that AC penalty, and you should not be able to do both at the same time!

 

[Olive]

Re: Re: Can I change and tumble?

Yes, you can change your clothes and tumble them, but usually you have to wash them first.

edited the title to make sunse...

 

[Olive]

basically, i can see how the rules don't really say either way, so I've emailed the sage. i'll post here when he replies.

I think its a wee bit powerful, but i know the player will argue for it. if there are officialy PrCs that give the ability it tends to suggest that you can't with out the PrC tho.

I'll look at S&F...

 

[KnowTheToe]

Here's some facts to chew on to decide if you can or cannot tumble and charge at the same time:

From the FAQ:



From the SRD, Tumble:







The real question is if the movment during charge is "normal movement" or not. That all depends on what you think "normal movement" means. One could argue that it means a "move action," in which case perhpas you can't tumble and charge.

It's a judgement call with no really clear-cut guidance in the rules. You can easily justify either position within the rules.

The new version (?) of Tumble from d20 modern is different:



Under this version you could use it with charge, as the language about "normal movement" is removed.

But, if you are weaving and doging are you moving in a straight line?

 

[Shard O'Glase]

a certain canadian in alpha flight suggests that maybe you can.

 

[Olive]

a certain canadian in alpha flight suggests that maybe you can.

and while i always liked alpha flight, i'm not sure that its an official DnD rules source.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

and while i always liked alpha flight, i'm not sure that its an official DnD rules source.

In a sense it is in my games. I won't let people blatently break the rules to do something they saw in a comic or in a movie or read in a book. but if it's on the boarderline of what's legit and what's not I say let them pull off the cool stunts they like from their favorite comic/book/movie. I just apply on the fly appropriate modifiers to the skill tests.

 

[Olive]

In a sense it is in my games. I won't let people blatently break the rules to do something they saw in a comic or in a movie or read in a book. but if it's on the boarderline of what's legit and what's not I say let them pull off the cool stunts they like from their favorite comic/book/movie. I just apply on the fly appropriate modifiers to the skill tests.

this is a nice idea i think. my players aren't big comics readers, but maybe i'll keep that in mind as a guide line.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

A charge is a full round action. It is NOT a move action followed by an attack action. Although it involves "movement", no part of it is a move action or a move-equivalent action. It is not "normal movement". Ergo, you cannot tumble as part of a charge.

[I assume this is being used by smart-arse monks and rogues who are attempting to get to the chief villain at the back of the fight without provoking attacks of opportunity while they do it. There are other ways to achieve this objective without attempting to bend the rules.]

Cheers, Al'Kelhar