Draw Steel News

We're just going to disagree. No biggie.
This is an issue of fact – not really something to "agree" or "disagree" on. There was an update posted on May 31. Before that, there were a couple of updates posted around Christmas, with the second Backer Packet and the associated survey.

They also said from the start that most of the day-to-day updates would be on the Patreon – the expression used was that the Patreons get to see how the sausage is made, while backers get to see relatively polished milestones.
 

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This is an issue of fact – not really something to "agree" or "disagree" on. There was an update posted on May 31. Before that, there were a couple of updates posted around Christmas, with the second Backer Packet and the associated survey.
For a Kickstarter involving multiple millions of dollars, the updates have been exceptionally sparse and frankly unnecessarily limited.

You can say "Um ackshully" the few updates they have made, but they have been low-grade. Unusually so. If you think this is a typical-quality for updates on a TTRPG KS/Backerkit deal involving millions, well, I can't agree. This is least updates and worst-quality updates I've ever seen for a big money TTRPG KS/Backerkit with a product in progress that I've backed. I'm sure there are worse examples, but I also suspect they're from bad companies or inept/inexperienced people rather than a well-established and supposedly very competent company who have done this stuff before many times (and I don't usually back people/projects like that).

They also said from the start that most of the day-to-day updates would be on the Patreon – the expression used was that the Patreons get to see how the sausage is made, while backers get to see relatively polished milestones.
They did say that, and I think that's why people are pissed off, because for a lot of people, they didn't actually fulfil that promise in the way a lot of people understood it!

People expected the Backerkit backers to get regular meaningful updates with a decent amount of material. I can't speak for everyone, but for me that would mean that once there was something to look at, I'd expect a download with a decent view on what was going on every 3-4 months, say. That's nowhere near the rate or breadth of material Patrons of the Patreon get, but that'd be okay.

That didn't happen.

And to be clear, because I now have access to the Patreon, I can see it's actually worse than I thought. Patrons were getting big updates with large amounts of close-to-finished material at times when Backerkit backers were getting next-to-nothing, and frankly, there was absolutely zero difference re: polish in what was sent to Backerkit backers.

And to be clear for anyone who doesn't know, there were precisely two (2) updates with anything to look at/download over the last 19 months.

1) 30th August 2024 - This had only five (5) classes and only covered level 1.

2) 20th December 2024 - This had all nine (9) classes but still only covered up to level 3.

That's it. No material updates this year at all. That's why people are irked.

If you don't get that, fine, but don't pretend that different people having different standards means the other people are unreasonable and you're Captain Sanity, please, it's lame.

And again, I don't think it's even "Wow I'm mad with MCDM!" thing, because honestly, I don't feel it (I wouldn't have signed up for their Patreon, even briefly, if I was). They haven't ruined or broken anything. The game looks solid even if the setting is, imho, a swing and a miss. There's no scam or trickery. I'm just deeply unimpressed. It's just a classic case of a company technically fulfilling the requirements, but doing so in a way that just doesn't impress you.

And I think it's perfectly reasonable to not see any value in KSing anything with them again. It's not like it's a sacred duty, is it? Some people act like it is, but it definitely isn't, especially not for a company making millions. KSing something is essentially doing the KSee a favour, and if they don't really need the money to make the product (they clearly didn't here), and also don't seem to be very interested in the Backers, well, that's cool but why would I KS something with them again? Can you explain?

EDIT - the only reason I can think of is maybe it'd be cheaper than buying the product post-release? But I guess we'll find out when we see pricing post-release.
 
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I think its going to be interesting to look at the contrast of how different and successful these releases are from the rpg youtube/content creator sphere.

Runehammer: Crown & Skull
MCDM: Draw Steel
Evil Baby Entertainment: Broken Empires
Critical Role: Dagger Heart & Obscura
JP Coovert: Dragontown
Dungeoncraft: Deathbringer
Ben Questing Beast: Knave 2
Daniel Kwan: Wandering Blades
That is quite a few games - lots of cool ideas I suspect in that pool!
We are certainly spoiled for choice.
 

I guess it’s just me but I still treat Kickstarter and BackerKit as something where I’m putting money upfront to fund a project and what I will get are the specific things listed in the tier level I backed, no more, no less. Not as an early access club.
 

I guess it’s just me but I still treat Kickstarter and BackerKit as something where I’m putting money upfront to fund a project and what I will get are the specific things listed in the tier level I backed, no more, no less. Not as an early access club.
I think depending on the project that can make complete sense. Especially if you're not interested in anything but the final product and completely trust the company to do a good job. With X Without Number products, for example, I'm not interested until it's done (I mean, to be fair I'm done buying those until the author realizes AI art isn't okay, but we'll see with the next one he KSes).

And the cold fact is companies have long since realized that if you do offer early access, you get more people signing up, especially if you're asking for feedback/direction on something new. That's a major part of why they tend to offer it. I've also seen significant/important changes come out of that feedback sometimes.

Here the situation was, AFAIK, basically unprecedented (maybe it isn't and I just haven't seen this before, of course), in that we were told there'd be regular updates (good) and that we'd get fewer of them than Patrons, but they'd be more polished (weird but okay). However, we didn't really get what I'd call regular updates, and they certainly weren't "more polished" in any sense that I can recognise. Combine that with deeply lacklustre stretch goals (a VTT no-one asked for, and which seems like it will be a PITA for everyone including MCDM, and a setting booklet which it's slightly unclear to me if we're even getting, or just like, it's allowing them to write it and then sell it), and a general vibe that Backerkit Backers are, at best, an afterthought, and I don't see much to like.

Honestly I'm personally KSing a lot less stuff than I used to, because so much more of it gets made anyway, and in general, at least for the products I've been interested in, the stretch goals and additional benefits from actually KS'ing have been getting worse and worse for years, to the point where in some cases the product you can eventually buy in Drivethru is about the same price and has exactly the same material as if you'd KS'd the project.
 

I think depending on the project that can make complete sense. Especially if you're not interested in anything but the final product and completely trust the company to do a good job. With X Without Number products, for example, I'm not interested until it's done (I mean, to be fair I'm done buying those until the author realizes AI art isn't okay, but we'll see with the next one he KSes).

And the cold fact is companies have long since realized that if you do offer early access, you get more people signing up, especially if you're asking for feedback/direction on something new. That's a major part of why they tend to offer it. I've also seen significant/important changes come out of that feedback sometimes.

Here the situation was, AFAIK, basically unprecedented (maybe it isn't and I just haven't seen this before, of course), in that we were told there'd be regular updates (good) and that we'd get fewer of them than Patrons, but they'd be more polished (weird but okay). However, we didn't really get what I'd call regular updates, and they certainly weren't "more polished" in any sense that I can recognise. Combine that with deeply lacklustre stretch goals (a VTT no-one asked for, and which seems like it will be a PITA for everyone including MCDM, and a setting booklet which it's slightly unclear to me if we're even getting, or just like, it's allowing them to write it and then sell it), and a general vibe that Backerkit Backers are, at best, an afterthought, and I don't see much to like.

Honestly I'm personally KSing a lot less stuff than I used to, because so much more of it gets made anyway, and in general, at least for the products I've been interested in, the stretch goals and additional benefits from actually KS'ing have been getting worse and worse for years, to the point where in some cases the product you can eventually buy in Drivethru is about the same price and has exactly the same material as if you'd KS'd the project.
I know that MCDM’s community is pretty active in a number of places, Patreon and Twitch amongst them, and if you were ONLY accessing them in one place, you would be missing out on extra content. I’ve backed MCDM stuff before and outside of a printing snafu where they gave people stickers to amend the book themselves (all communicated in advance via KS when the printing problem occurred and with multiple options provided), I can’t say that they haven’t delivered. But I also was following Colville on YouTube and Twitch at the time, so there was never a time that I didn’t feel I was getting a stream of updates.

And yeah, I don’t back much stuff anymore unless it’s for a product extra that I really want. If the funding has made its goal, there’s no advantage to me in backing versus buying the product when it’s available in the company’s store.
 

But I also was following Colville on YouTube and Twitch at the time, so there was never a time that I didn’t feel I was getting a stream of updates.
I was doing that (well, Twitter not Twitch) but at a certain point - and I know this is very much a "me" problem not anyone else's least of all Matt's! - Matt's incredibly dubious (to me) and super-ultra-nuclear-gamma-ray level deep cut Gen X-ish musical and filmic (and videogame, for that matter) tastes just metaphorically melted my face like I was a Nazi and he was the the Ark of the Covenant!

So I had to stop with that!

EDIT - I literally thought about this earlier today when I saw the Buffy episode where all the adults get turned into teenagers and Giles is listening to some deeply horrible 1960s record and thinks it's soooo cool lol.
 
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I'm surprised to read that. In the KS for Ashes Without Number the author declares that no AI art is used.
Wait he realized ALREADY?! Oh well maybe I will get Ashes without Number when it comes out officially then.

Cities Without Number definitely had some AI art and he was took the attitude of "Well it's not my fault if people use AI to make art I commission!", and it's like, the buck does actually stop with you buddy. You are the "president" here. But glad to see he's decided to become firmer on this with Ashes.
 

This is an issue of fact – not really something to "agree" or "disagree" on. There was an update posted on May 31. Before that, there were a couple of updates posted around Christmas, with the second Backer Packet and the associated survey.

They also said from the start that most of the day-to-day updates would be on the Patreon – the expression used was that the Patreons get to see how the sausage is made, while backers get to see relatively polished milestones.
I guess it was not clear that I was talking about content updates? Because that seemed clear to me and Ruin. So, just to be clear, we got nothing like what we were promised in content updates. Have a great day!
 

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