Can I meet the requirements for a PrC on the level I take it?

[SamuraiY]

I stand corrected. Never mind.

 

[hong]

Quidam is incorrect.

If any one choice at a given level would qualify you for another choice at that same level, you're golden.

IOW, if upon advancing to 6th level, you need Feat X to get Class Y, but you meet all the other prerequisites -- you can take Feat X, then declare the level gained as a level of Class Y.

There is NO rule that says you have to follow a specific order, and while I can't find it ATM (I'm somewhat pressed for time), I know there is a rule in the PHB which has been cited here before, saying you CAN do as I've described above.

Bah.


Hong "dogpile the newb! dogpile the newb!" Ooi

 

[Hypersmurf]

All the designers are in agreement that the "Level Advancement" ordering on PHB p. 145-146 is mandatory and not optional.

Does the order go Feats, Skills, or Skills, Feats?

I certainly wouldn't allow someone to choose either before picking their class... but I'd allow someone to take ranks in Ride to qualify for Mounted Combat at the same level, and I'd allow someone to take the Cosmopolitan feat to purchase ranks in something as a Class Skill at the same level...

... in other words, I wouldn't care which order they did Feats and Skills.

In fact, I'd even let a human wizard, say, take Cosmopolitan (Ride), then take some ranks in Ride, then take Mounted Combat, all in that order, at 1st level.

Would the designers disagree with that?

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

Quidam is incorrect.

If any one choice at a given level would qualify you for another choice at that same level, you're golden.

IOW, if upon advancing to 6th level, you need Feat X to get Class Y, but you meet all the other prerequisites -- you can take Feat X, then declare the level gained as a level of Class Y.

There is NO rule that says you have to follow a specific order, and while I can't find it ATM (I'm somewhat pressed for time), I know there is a rule in the PHB which has been cited here before, saying you CAN do as I've described above.

There is a rule in the PHB (page 77) that allows you to take feats in the same level that you meet their prerequisites, but there is no similar rule for Prestige Classes.

And Prestige classes don't have prerequisites anyway. They have "requirements".

Why this makes a difference, I don't know.

I've also seen Sean K Reynolds state that the numbered list on page 145 of the PHB, under "Level Advancement" is the order in which you are supposed to level up.

 

[Relentless]

PHB p. 77: "A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite."

 

[Hypersmurf]

And Prestige classes don't have prerequisites anyway. They have "requirements".

Why this makes a difference, I don't know.

Gah! It makes a difference when you can't figure out why a Google search on "lasher prerequisites whip" won't tell you what you need to qualify for the class!

Thank you. "lasher requirements whip" solved the problem nicely

-Hyp.

 

[dcollins]

PHB p. 77: "A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite."

Of course, that's merely a corollary of the main ruling to follow the order on PHB p. 145, since the order is to pick up (1) class, (2) BAB, (3) saves, (4) skills, (5) abilities, (6) hit points, and then (7) feats.

I suppose, however, an argument could be had over whether (8) spells and (9) class features count on the same level for feat prerequisites -- those being conspicuously left out of the language about prerequisites on p. 77, and there being no such feat prerequisites in the core rules (distinguishing between "spellcaster level" and "ability to cast spell of level n" here).

 

[Hypersmurf]

I suppose, however, an argument could be had over whether (8) spells and (9) class features count on the same level for feat prerequisites -- those being conspicuously left out of the language about prerequisites on p. 77, and there being no such feat prerequisites in the core rules.

I got one

Rog-14 multiclasses to Cleric. He chooses the War Domain - a class feature - gaining Weapon Proficiency in Longsword. Class Features are applied after Feats are chosen, but "A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite" means he's eligible to take Improved Critical: Longsword.

-Hyp.

 

[Norfleet]

PHB p145 only specifies "When a character achieves a new level, make these changes". The changes are not specified to occur in any specific order, although in some cases, there are obvious dependencies between the steps. The above longsword example is a good case for "no specific order aside from dependencies".

Here's another one:
If a character takes his 4th level, he is entitled to increase his stats by one. Supposing he increases his int by 1 at that level, does he get an extra skillpoint that level, or does that not take effect until next level? The PHB says absolutely nothing about this. This is of particular note because intelligence bonusses do not appear to be, at present, retroactive, and therefore, this subject is of great concern to anyone who plays a wizard.

Obviously, of course, a character not meeting the skillpoint requirements is unable to take the PrC, since he must meet the skill point requirements to take the class, and cannot allocate skill points until he has chosen a class to level up in, since that choice determines how many skillpoints he gets, and what his class and non-class skills are. A feat requirement is more dicey: If a character levels to an increment-of-3 level, he always, no matter what, gets to take a feat just by character level. Whether or not this feat taken would allow him to qualify for the PrC is unknown, although I'd be inclined to allow a feat gained at level-up to count, unless it's acquired as a bonus feat for a class, since class is indeterminate.

As above, the cleric example is generally accepted as legal by PHB p. 77, but contradicts the order of level-up upgrades. However, PHB p. 145 does not specify that those upgrades occur in any specific order, so, barring any undetermined quantities, PHB p. 77 clearly implies that they occur in whatever order is most beneficial.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If a character takes his 4th level, he is entitled to increase his stats by one. Supposing he increases his int by 1 at that level, does he get an extra skillpoint that level, or does that not take effect until next level? The PHB says absolutely nothing about this.

Actually, going from memory, the PHB does say something about it. In two different places. Contradicting itself.

The first time, it gives an example of Mialee bumping her Int at 4th level and getting extra skill points.

Then later on, it insists that you must possess a higher Int for (again, going from memory) "a significant portion of the previous level" to qualify for extra skill points.

If it said absolutely nothing, it wouldn't be so bad

-Hyp.