D&D 5E Can I use action surge in the middle of another action (between attacks when attacking with extra attack)?

[FrogReaver]

A reaction interrupts the normal flow of actions because it resolves instantly, by the rules. This isn't really proof of anything beyond that- an action can't interrupt a reaction because only a reaction can interrupt a reaction.

But that proves that actions cannot be used any time during your turn as They literally cannot be used in response to a reaction occurring on your turn.

Like if I move and provoke an OA, no, I can't continue to move, or Dodge as a bonus action, but I could cast Shield to potentially negate the OA.

Right.

This doesn't prove that an action can't interrupt another action in progress, because the only person who can take actions on your turn is you, there's no opportunity for anyone else to take an action, only reactions.

I didn’t claim it proved that.

At this point, I'm actually convinced that the Extra Attack feature is, itself, not an action. It's something you can simply do as long as you take the Attack Action. 2024's Nick Weapon Mastery will apparently function in this way, for example.

Sounds reasonable.

 

[aco175]

At this point, I'm actually convinced that the Extra Attack feature is, itself, not an action. It's something you can simply do as long as you take the Attack Action. 2024's Nick Weapon Mastery will apparently function in this way, for example.

I do not see it as an action as well. It is just part of your action, specifically the attack action. If for some reason a fighter chooses to only attack once, then the extra attacks are wasted, since the action would be over after this.

 

[ECMO3]

Reactions explicitly occur in response to a trigger and as seen in the shield spell, one possible trigger is an attack. I’d say that proves reactions can explicitly be used between extra attacks, provided the trigger occurs then.

Action surge explicitly occurs when you use action surge. Nothing explicitly states that you can use a reaction in between attacks.

 

[ECMO3]

The question might be, when on your turn can you normally take actions?

Or reactions, or object interactions

 

[FrogReaver]

Nothing explicitly states that you can use a reaction in between attacks.

You must be reading different rules than me.

 

[ezo]

In the spirit of the thread, one could argue that if I pick a race like dwarf and want the +1hp/level that would be fine. But I also think that because I'm a dwarf I should get the +2 STR since it does not say "particular racial traits" from sub-race only race and dwarf is the race over hill dwarf and mountain dwarf. At least the variant human states that you lose the Ability Score Increase trait, likely since there is no sub-race for human. Sound rather silly that people would not understand though, but I can see where some angling for it could argue for it.

You really couldn't though because of this:

Each subrace only gets the additional traits specified for that subrace.

The whole breaking up your action seems only possible for fighter-types with more than one attack. Other classes only get one attack or cast one spell so things seem more simple.

That's because most of the time actions are discrete, so there's nothing to break up...

Consider this scenario:

A guard is watching the lever that will open a nearby gate. One would expect him to be guardly and protect it, but unknown to the PCs (and players), the DM decides this guard will run for help, not stay by the lever because he knows it will trigger a pit-trap. In fact, the DM is having the guard take the Ready action to Dash if any PC starts to pull the lever. The guard won't leave just if the PC gets close, the PC has to actually grab the lever and start to pull it.

A PC moves next to the lever, takes the Use an Object action to "pull the lever". This triggers the guard's readied action, and the guard uses his reaction to move away (because he knows it is a false lever which actually triggers the TRAP!) taking his Dash action.

Now, the PC has a weapon in his other hand, and the guard "dashing" away triggers an oportunity attack and the PC uses his reaction to cast hold person (at 2nd level, targeting only the guard, via the War Caster feat).

The guard fails his saves, cannot move (since he's paralyzed), and the PC completes pulling the lever, triggering the trap, and both fall to their doom!!!

------

So, here we have what is normally a discrete action (Use an Object), broken up because of Ready action reaction trigger and then an OA reaction trigger.

-----

Or, we get even more strange... The player has the PC stop pulling the lever since the guard fled, and the player thinks it might be a trap. Can the PC stop? Or once the action is begun, must it be completed?

I think that I'm still on the side of saying that all the special features and instances that allow you to do cool things are said in the feature, so it implies a rule of not breaking up your action. If you are in the middle of your attack action, you can doo a cool power like shove if you have the feat, or move since it allows it, or finish you attack action and waste the second attack. Then you can move to take AS for another action.

I can see where I would allow some of the things in my home game though.

So, where do stand on the Shield Master issue?

1. Attack, bonus action shove, Extra Attack
2. Attack, bonus action shove, NO Extra Attack
3. Attack, Extra Attack, bonus action shove
4. Bonus action shove, Attack, Extra Attack

 

[ezo]

Oh right, I always get confused by this because 5e makes a distinction between a melee weapon attack and an attack with a melee weapon (ie, why you can't Smite with a punch).

Yeah, it is pretty lame IMO. Any feature or spell you can use with a "weapon", should be available to use on Unarmed Strikes. And both my groups play it that way. It makes things cooler and doesn't hurt a thing, so it is really an unnecessary restriction IME.

 

[ezo]

Action surge is not a bonus action. It's like extra attack and you can just do it on your turn. In 5e specific beats general. Movement is specifically allowed in-between attacks. Bonus actions with unspecified timing can specifically be used at any time, which would include in-between attacks. Action surge has no specific exceptions AND provides a new entire action. I would not allow it and the rules do not say it can be done, so it can't be done by RAW.

Since movement is allowed between attacks, what about:

Move 20 feet. Attack (kills foe).
Action Surge to Dash, gaining another 30 feet of movement and continue to move my remaining 40 feet, engaging a second foe.
Extra Attack on second foe.

I'm just moving and attacking, after all.

 

[Maxperson]

A good example - you move and take an OA. Can you take the attack action and kill that enemy before the OA is resolved. If not then it’s proof you cannot use your action anytime on your turn.

OAs are not on your turn. You get them as a reaction on another's turn.

 

[ichabod]

Again. There is no single line to cite you. I’ve been clear on that. Why ask for what I agree doesn’t exist?

Instead it’s the whole text taken altogether and maybe your trying to ask for some elaboration there, but if so please drop the single line of text rule line of questioning because we both agree that’s not there.

Well, I have made several objections to your "whole text" argument, and you've ignored every single one of them. What else am I going to talk about? Given that, and given that this discussion is irrelevant (since we both agree we would allow it in play), I see no point in continuing with this discussion.