Can incorporeal creatures be disintegrated?

[shilsen]

*marches around in front of Hypersmurfs house carrying a sign that says "Wraiths are people too. Wraiths have rights."*

Casts disintegrate on sign

 

[jlhorner1974]

Wraiths have the same rights as any other creature -- they get a Fort save just like everything else (using their Charisma modifier instead of Constitution since they don't have a Con score)

 

[AuraSeer]

The wraith does get a Fort save, but its Charisma is not involved. It gets attribute modifier of +0 (base save only), because it lacks a Constitution score.

 

[hammymchamham]

He's right, though

-Hyp.

I ment the first part of his post, and was lazy and didn't erase all of his post.

I put more thought it in last night, and was thiking of your example of the Inconporeal Orc. And though, yeah it would blah blah blah.

And as you said "Undead are not treated as objects for the purposes of spells with Fort saves. They are affected by spells with Fort saves which also affect objects. There's a big, big difference."

That was the hang up with me. Can you do me a favor and point me in the dirrection of where that is spelled out? I've always played it that way, don't know why I forgot that yesterday.

"Huh. I thought I was being much more smug than that other guy."

I went ahead and deleted my old post.

Aurua seer, if you saw it, I apologize. Please forgive me

 

[Hypersmurf]

*marches around in front of Hypersmurfs house carrying a sign that says "Wraiths are people too. Wraiths have rights."*

"Waiths have wights!"

Ahem.

-Hyp.

 

[Gez]

Wraiths have the same rights as any other creature -- they get a Fort save just like everything else (using their Charisma modifier instead of Constitution since they don't have a Con score)

Undead use Charisma instead of Constitution for everything (poison, Concentration check, psychokynesis psionic powers)...


... Except hit point bonus to HD and Fortitude saves, where they use nothing.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Can you do me a favor and point me in the dirrection of where that is spelled out?

"Undead are once-living creatures animated by spiritual or supernatural forces. They have no Constitution scores and are therefore immune to any effect requiring a Fortitude save (unless it affects objects)."

1. Undead are creatures.
2. Undead are immune to Fort save effects, unless:
3. It affects objects.

Since Disintegrate affects objects, undead are not immune to it. What is the effect of Disintegrate on a creature that is not immune? They get disintegrated.

I wouldn't let a zombie be affected by a Shatter spell - it's a creature, not an object. "Spells that can affect objects" is just a category of spells that can affect undead... if they can also affect creatures.

-Hyp.

 

[jlhorner1974]

Doh, thanks for the correction Auraseer. I missed that little blurb in the FAQ about "...except for Fortitude saves"

So I'll revise my statement:

Wraiths have the same rights as any other creature -- they get a Fort save just like everything else.

And if you consider Disintegration to qualify as "damage from a corporeal source" (another discussion entirely), wraiths get a 50% chance to ignore it entirely

(Which is probably a good thing, as far as the wraith is concerned, as the wraith's +1 Fort save is not going to save very often against a level 11 wizard with a Disintegrate save DC of at least 19. The wizard is probably more likely to miss with the ray than the wraith is to make its save.)

 

[Hypersmurf]

And if you consider Disintegration to qualify as "damage from a corporeal source" (another discussion entirely), wraiths get a 50% chance to ignore it entirely

Heh. It's a really weird one.

The wizard makes his RTA. If he hits, then the wraith might get disintegrated. Disintegration is not, strictly speaking, damage, so there's no 50% miss chance. The ray hit the wraith.

However, the wraith gets a Fort save. If he fails, he suffers 5d6 damage... oops! That's damage from a corporeal source! All of a sudden, there's a chance - based on the wraith's Fortitude save - that the wizard's ray actually missed.

Bizarre.

-Hyp.

 

[Taren Seeker]

"Waiths have wights!"

Ahem.

-Hyp.

*Shoots -Hyp*

No fort save for THAT, cha or otherwise.