Can Mirror Images Flank?

[kreynolds]

From my reading, the mirror images also have the breath weapon of a Great Red Wyrm, useable once per round as a free action. Of course, that's just my reading.

Yeah, I know, I'm a troll. If anything, though, this thread has definately been interesting.

 

[ForceUser@Home]

Jabba:

To be able to flank, you must threaten your opponent. Your mirriored doubles don't threaten anything (they can't take Attacks of Opportunity, can they?), so therefore they can't flank. Simple. You might argue that you can switch their facing (I might buy that) and you might even argue that you can put them in a flanking position (which I don't buy, especially if they're flanking off you. A flanking character will always be at least 10 feet away from you, and your images must stay within 5 feet.). But once in a flanking position, they're just going to stand there and mimic you. They're not actually threatening your foe, and thus can't flank (or attack). Does that make sense to you?

 

[Dave Blewer]

Does that make sense to you?

I predict that it won't!

 

[kreynolds]

I predict that it won't!

LOL

 

[Jack Haggerty]

...might even argue that you can put them in a flanking position (which I don't buy, especially if they're flanking off you. A flanking character will always be at least 10 feet away from you, and your images must stay within 5 feet.)...

Again, the images don't need to be within 5' of you... But within 5' of you or another image. Getting one into a flanking position is easy enough, like so...

W
M I
I

W=wizard
M=monster
I=image

As to whether the image allows a flanking bonus... Well, that's really up to your friendly neighborhood DM, now isn't it?

Personally, I'd tend to say no, though I might consider allowing a Will Save to disbelieve (the flanked character relizes that most of the images are illusions), and avoid flanking.

 

[ForceUser@Home]

Come on, Jack, you're filling his head with nonsense. No offense, friend, but this is very very simple. On page 130 of the PHB, under flanking, it clearly states:

If you are making a melee attack against a creature, and an ally directly opposite you is threatening the creature, you and your ally flank the creature.

A mirror image can't make a melee attack. Can he threaten? Let's see what the book says about that. Look on page 122 under "Threatened Area":

You threaten the area into which you can make a melee attack, even when it's not your action.

Since mirror images can't attack, they can't threaten, and thus, they can't flank.

 

[0-hr]

Getting one into a flanking position is easy enough, .

Easy huh? So how did you get that image over there? Did you command it to move there? That's not allowed. Was it randomly placed? I don't see any rules for placing images. Are the images sentient and acting to please you? They are just illusions, no agency or intent allowed.

I don't know, but it does not look at all easy to get one into flanking position.

Do yourself a favor, errata this:

"remain in a cluster, each within 5 feet of at least one other figment or the character"

to this:

"remain in a cluster, each within 5 feet of at least one other figment and the character"

It will actually make the spell playable.

 

[Jack Haggerty]

Forceuser... I said that I would tend go against flanking. My point was that, if the DM decides to allow it, I'd at least offer a Will Save to negate the effect. I should have stated that more clearly.

Easy huh? So how did you get that image over there? Did you command it to move there? That's not allowed. Was it randomly placed? I don't see any rules for placing images. Are the images sentient and acting to please you? They are just illusions, no agency or intent allowed.

Well then, would you please explain to me how you decide where to place the images to begin with? And what happens when you gain more than 8 images with a single casting?

Do yourself a favor, errata this:

"remain in a cluster, each within 5 feet of at least one other figment or the character"

to this:

"remain in a cluster, each within 5 feet of at least one other figment and the character"

It will actually make the spell playable.

Though unlikely, I may House Rule it, but I will not Errata it... I don't work for WotC.

 

[ouini]

It's even simpler than ForceUser@Home is making it out to be . . . it's up to the GM. Simple as that.

Quoting books and using them as exacting standards in situations the authors probably didn't think of is, well, silly. It's like two different flavored Christians quoting the same Bible verse at each other telling the other they're not real Christians.

Just use what makes sense to you. All right, so on page 130 of the PHB, an ally directly opposite you has to threaten your opponent. So? Does that mean that if there's a 3-party combat where a non-"ally" is attacking your opponent, you don't get a bonus because the "flanker" isn't your ally?

That's what it says in the PHB. But I believe, as a GM, you should use common sense, instead. If you're GM and feel illusions can't flank, so be it. But never bother trying to read rules so they fit what you think (90% of this board). If you're playing in the grey, just use your noggin'.

 

[0-hr]

Well then, would you please explain to me how you decide where to place the images to begin with?

Oh, that's easy, they are all in the same square as the caster. Then they remain in that cluster since each is within 5 feet of at least one other figment or the character.