Can spells and magic items help satisfy feat prerequisites?

[Vurt]

Can you use a spell or magic item in order to satisfy the prerequisite for some feat?

For example, can someone with Str 11 have a bull's strength cast on them in order to take Power Attack? Will Gauntlets of Ogre Power work?

My gut feeling says you shouldn't be able to, but the PHB doesn't expressly prohibit it that I can see. Unless what is meant by a character is considered to be independant from any running spells and/or gear.

This sorta came up in another thread, and I can't recall seeing the topic come up before, so here you go. Ideas?

Cheers,
Vurt

 

[Crothian]

spells I think is a no, magic items I think is a yes. But even if you do to get Power Attack in your example, once your strength goes back to normal you can't use the feat.

Though I rule 0 that neither do

 

[blaine_evans]

it does not.

feats ask you to have the required pre-reqs permanently, not temporarily.

blaine

 

[Scion]

Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite.
A character can’t use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite.

Now, I personally let people who only qualify some of the time to get a feat so long as they state that they are taking extra time to practice for it. Out of normal game time of course.


But, as written, spells and items will work just fine. Long term ones are much easier to adjucate, for shorter duration effects it seems more up to your dm for what he considers satisfactory for 'your character must have'

 

[blaine_evans]

it also says that you have to HAVE THE PRE-REQ in order to take it. not borrow it from some other source like a spell or magic item. even though gauntlets are permanently there, you still borrowed the bonus because it's not yours.

blaine.

 

[Caliban]

Basically, you have to meet the prerequisites at the time you can take the feat.

So your spell would have to be in effect at whatever magical moment you level up in. Generally, this hard to adjudicate, and I think it's assumed that the actual "leveling up" process takes a few days. It just happens "off camera". The DM has final say.

Magic items that give a constant bonus are another story. As long as you have the item, you have the stat increase, feat, or whatever it gives you to meet the prerequisite.

Just, if you lose the item you can no longer use the feat.

 

[Caliban]

it also says that you have to HAVE THE PRE-REQ in order to take it. not borrow it from some other source like a spell or magic item. even though gauntlets are permanently there, you still borrowed the bonus because it's not yours.

blaine.

It says nothing about "borrowing", either for or against. If you have a 13 strength when you level up, the rules don't care how you got it, just that you have it.

 

[Sledge]

Magic items is explicitly allowed somewhere I am certain.
Spells would also be allowable. Just remember the feat is useless (and any that have it as a prerequisite as well) any time you no longer meet the requirements.

 

[Vurt]

Magic items is explicitly allowed somewhere I am certain.

Would you, could you, could anybody dig up a quote, either yea or nay?

This strikes me as something important enough that should have made it into the FAQ, and somehow hasn't.

Cheers,
Vurt

 

[Nim]

Minimally, per RAW, you have to possess the appropriate ability score at the time you gain the feat. Reasonably, and probably in the FAQ somewhere if not elsewhere, you lose the use of the feat at any time you do not possess the pre-requisite ability score.

Which brings us to the question of 'when do you gain the feat?'

The RAW assume that when a character gains a level, they're performing research, getting training, etc. DMG p 197, though it's not in the SRD. The rules for finding and paying for training are optional, but by default, the training still HAPPENS - it's just assumed to be easy to find and free. You could even assume that characters don't need an instructor, just a bit of time to practice on their own. Even so...

Bull's Strength has a duration of 1 minute per level.

To keep that spell going the entire duration of a training session (even if you're generous and figure it takes one day - 8 hours of practice) would require a LOT of castings. Doesn't seem plausible to me.