Can we make the Grim-n-Gritty rules a little less... grim?

[DWARF]

Okay, I know Ken Hood specifically states what works and doesn't work with his rules-set; but I love the mechanic and am planning to run a game using the rules, but worry that it may be a little too grim. So, instead of doing as he suggests and neutering spellcasters, I was thinking of handing out a bit more hit points. Maybe double what he currently has set for HP/level.

Another option I was considering was that you could have HP's based similar to standard to start for first level, 10+Con for fighters, 4+Con for Wizards; then apply new HP's per level as per the GnG rules, or maybe twice what his rules allocate. But once your Hp's run out, you take all damage as Con damage. Then, switch the rules for wound trauma off of HP's and change it to Con damage. Thus, if you started with 12 Con and an attack dropped it to a 6, you have a moderate injury and apply a -4 modifier to your attack/skill/ability/saving throws.

Of course, if you suffer a bad injury and your Con is dropped to say 2 from 18, and you later heal your HP's back, but have yet to heal your Con damage, you'll have a -16 to all your HP's compared to how they are without the injury.

Not sure what holes or problems may be in this alteration to the GnG system, but that's the reason I posted it here, now isn't it?

Problems, comments, concerns?
Thanks

 

[green slime]

Ken Hood? GnG?

I just wish I knew what you were talking about...

 

[Dinkeldog]

Since you're looking at house ruling a house rule, I'll slide this over to that forum.

 

[Kemrain]

For those of you who are interestedin this thread, but have no idea who Ken Hood, or what his Grim and Gritty Hit-Point system is, Grazzt, in another thread, graciously posted this url with the latest version of the rules. They really are a great new way to do combat in D&D, and, as their name suggests, makes combat rather quick and bloody.

But, as Dwarf pointed out in the thread opener, the GnG system doesn't work for every game. You get your Con in HP at first level, plus a class bonus, which ammounts to 1, or -0, at each level. A 20th level fighter, with a 20 con, will have 40 HP unless he takes toughness repeatedly. In the games I run, low/no magic, humans (pretty much) only, this is no big deal, and helps to simulate everything from realistic falling damage to what should really happen to you when stabbed in the chest, but Ken's system is designed to make the monsters truely bad.

If you're large, you multiply your HP by 2. Huge? I think that's by 4... And on top of that, you get your con mod, plus one HP per week of resting, instead of popping back up to full hitpoints in 4 days. If you get hurt, you're hurt for a while, and at a penalty to all rolls, to boot. Realism hurts.


I love it, but most people playing D&D don't want that level of realism. I find the idea of the lone hero, pierced with so many arrows he looks like a porcupine, battling hordes of monsters, and coming out, bleeding and burned, with only as much detriment as if he chipped a nail, to be gutwrenching. It's an absurd example, but I use it to show my point. D&D is heroic gaming, while G&G is dark fantasy.

Dwarf, you're looking for a happy medium, huh? Hmm. You don't want to neuter casters (Which I did in my games), and want more HP's... Well, could you define 'Neuter Casters'? I don't think that anyone should be complaining if they can't throw a 10d8 delayed blast fireball at the 15th level fighter with 35 hp, and the only spells to suffer are the direct damage ones. I don't play with many people who like to cast, but the ones I do play with avoid the big blast spells and cast like the smart/wise/charismatic people they're supposed to be portraying. (Not to say that if you play the blaster style you're not smart/wise/charismat... you get the idea, no?) Are the offered "Odds are 1's" or reduced die size rules no good?

Remember, the magic rules were balanced and playtested (sometimes well, sometimes poorly) against the traditional HP rules, and even if you double the HP people have, Mages will still become the most powerful force available to PC's. You're not neutering them, as much as bringing them in line with the HP totals.
Any thoughts?

- Kemrain the Grim and Gritty Proponent.

PS: Sorry about length. When I love something like this, I tend to prattle. At least people who only have a little idea what I'm talking about might be able to grasp what I'm saying. Glad to see the G&G system discussed more! Dwarf, you like G&G, you're good in my book, heh.

 

[The Souljourner]

Your link doesn't work. Here's one that will:

http://faerun.sageanalytic.com/downloads/GrimNGrittyHitPointRulesv3.4.pdf

-The Souljourner

 

[Kemrain]

Oh, ick. Sorry. And thanks.

- Kemrain the Apologetic and Grateful.

 

[Urbannen]

Why not just go with the Star Wars VP/WP system? I think that system can handle normal D&D magic without too much tweaking, although you have to figure out which classes get which defensive bonus.

 

[Kemrain]

I'm not sure which is more epic, D&D fantasy, where you can all but be gutted six ways from sunday and be fine, or Star Wars, where you can come out of a lightsaber duel, after takig 6 hits, and not have a scratch (or a burn, as it were) on you.

I think the Vitality and Wounds system might work, but it lends a completely different flavor to your game. Yes, you are pretty dead when you take that critical hit with a lightsaber (2 to 5d8+ can ruin your day) but until then, you are impervious to harm, brushing off that explosion, blaster fire, and even faling damage, as if it were just an inconvienience. Star Wars is deadly, but it's abruptly deadly- you go at full force until, you stop.

It's a good suggestion, but it adds a whole new flavor to the game, one rather perpendicular to the Grim and Gritty line of thought, and I'm not sure that's what Drawf is interested in.

Then again, I'm not he, so I may be way off.

- Kemrain the Not-DWARF.

 

[Nifft]

Idea: give few HP, but more than the base G-n-G system. Specifically, give (HD/3) rounded down.

Wizards, Sorcerers: 1 hp/level
Rogues, Bards, Clerics, Druids, Rangers: 2 hp/level
Fighters, Paladins: 3 hp/level
Barbarians: 4 hp/level

Then, reduce all spells to one-half damage. It's easiest to reduce the number of dice allowed: so, Burning Hands does 1d6/2 levels, max 3d6; Fireball deals 1d6/2 levels, max 5d6. Magic Missile is a problem (as always), so just have it automatically deal 2 hp per missile, max 3 missiles.

-- N

 

[Enkhidu]

DWARF, some questions to help us suggest the right tailoring:

What level of magic do you plan on having in this campaign? The GnG system isn't meant for magic at the standard level.

What's the feel of the campaign? Genre/setting/etc.

Using movies: do you and your players like a style more like Die Hard (definitely either a HP or VP/WP system) or more like Braveheart (where death is exceedingly easy and bloody, more suited to GnG).

Just some questions.