D&D 4E Can WotC Cater to Past Editions Without Compromising 4e Design?

[Pour]

Partisioning could be done by holding the editions in separate datastores.
They by selecting the appropiate compendium one is connected to identical software that points to a different instance of the datastore.
The real work is populating the datastore in the first place.

Right, hence the idea of starting with the earliest editions simply for the lower amount of rules data they'd need to input compared to 3e?

As an aside, in this theoretical earlier edition Compendium, I'd really like a decided old school feel in the interface. It might be as little as some font changes, maybe some coloration, and I'd personally swoon over some of the old art alongside the monsters. I'm not sure how functional that would be, as it might clutter the reference, but I'd say it's worth a try all the same. Sometimes art and interface really help spark something.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Right, hence the idea of starting with the earliest editions simply for the lower amount of rules data they'd need to input compared to 3e?

Excatly

As an aside, in this theoretical earlier edition Compendium, I'd really like a decided old school feel in the interface. It might be as little as some font changes, maybe some coloration, and I'd personally swoon over some of the old art alongside the monsters. I'm not sure how functional that would be, as it might clutter the reference, but I'd say it's worth a try all the same. Sometimes art and interface really help spark something.

Different art in the interface should be trivial. Since it is a web app the UI is a separate entiity from the serverside elements. The UI is essentially a bunch of textboxes and dropdowns. Fonts and art elements can be changed easily.


3e is a dilfferent kettle of fish. 3e has quite complex character construction and even more complex monster construction. If they decide to all 3.x into the mix then a character builder is pretty much a requirenment as is a monster builder.
These are non trivial applications, especially the monster builder and the huge amount of templates out there.

 

[Pour]

There seems to be several intertwined conversations going on at once in this thread.

1) Do I think a new version of DnD could appeal to older editions and to current? I think it is possible, but highly unlikely. It would be a high risk vs high reward, with a screw up likely being the death of DnD if it fell in between and they lost the 4e players mostly and gain almost none of the old players. So I think it would be a mistake.

2) Could new products be made to appeal to 4e and older editions at the same time? Honestly no, the design and game play for 4e I think is to different to pull it off. I think one or more of the editions would just have a odd tacked on feel and worse case is all of them do and it doesn't play to the strengths of any of them enough.

3) Can WotC cater to 4e and older editions as a company? Can they sure but unless they higher more people it would cut into 4e design. I think there best bet would be to make better PDF's of older edition books and sell them and offer them as a PoD. I do agree with Scribbler that even if people bought the books to play with Pathfinder or a retro clone who cares. A sold book is a sold book. Especially once the new scans for PDF's was done it wouldn't have any over head anymore. So once enough of each book was sold to pay for the time and such for the new PDF, it would then just be pure profit.

I honestly don't think them selling older editions in PDF and PoD would have a big impact on who plays what. I do think it would generate some sales and a lot of good will, which honestly the second I think is more important than the first for WotC. Especially if they plan a 5e in the near future. Getting a positive rep before then so the maximum number of people will at least check out 5e when it comes I think would make any time and effort into older edition PDF's pay off if 5e is any good at all.

Of course that's just my personal opinion and could be wrong, but obviously I don't think I am.

Good to have you in the conversation. I kind of got sidetracked with implementation imaginings, but I think you're right, we do have multiple interpretations of the title question going on, and as it turns out all of them are valid questions hehe.

1. I agree. They should be moving forward, not back, and I'll happily elaborate on that if I must, as I've discussed that in previous threads. Some people peg me as a blind progressive, but it's really not the case hehe. By and large every edition is seeing active support and development, so I'd continue with 4e's evolution.

2. Agreed. This was more what I had in mind, and my conclusions are similar, I don't think they can, nor do I think they should.

3. I think a lot of people would be interested in older material, and I know they will be experimenting with that, but it's likely going to be DDI only, potentially as PDFs but I'm thinking more likely log-in viewable and unprintable, justifying a subscription, which I'm thinking turns that good will to seething venom. Their supplying older material in this way really provides more for 4e players for reasons mentioned above, but it could be considered a draw if the 'libraries' offered were robust enough.

As for an olive branch before 5e, yikes I hope that isn't the case. Honestly, I'd be happy with them fortifying the digital offerings of 4e, expanding the edition, and simultaneously providing DDI features for the past (just so long as it didn't encroach on the current edition's progress) for the next 5+ years.

 

[Dark Mistress]

Not saying 5e is coming any time soon, but with the bad press WotC has gotten justified or not over several decisions they have made and or their PR campaign. It would be in their best interest to extend a olive branch as you put it to the old players that no longer play the current edition of dnd aka 4e. To generate good will with that fan base, so they would be more likely to at least check out a new edition of DnD aka 5e.

Not saying that's what they are thinking only saying I think it would be smart of them to do something like that a year or two before 5e came out to build up some good will.

 

[Dias Ex Machina]

That said, I dislike the notion of trying to dilute current products by making them edition-inclusive. As it is, I'm unhappy with how Amethyst has a great setting but the 4e books go painfully against the grain of 4e concepts and design philosophy (no offense to the creator, who I know is on this board) and reads like a 3e book catering to a current edition. So, if WotC catered to past editions, I worry it would look like Amethyst and compromise the 4e design ideology

Have you read Amethyst - Evolution? It actually follows the current 4E design philosophy, even to the point of offering Essentials classes. As I've stated with many people, the 4E design philosophy has never altogether defined, especially since WOTC themselves seems to have broken it from time to time. As it is, few people have ever been able to properly point out exactly where Amethyst actually deviates with the exceptions made for the purpose of the setting. Those that have tried to put a finger on it usually point at disagreements in the fluff, which we can't appease, as amending those would break the fabric of the setting. If you dislike the setting, there's nothing I can do about that.

 

[Roland55]

I honestly don't think WOTC can or should bother.

That ship has sailed. Long since.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this so sorry if I am repeating something. In all honesty, we don't know the full line up of people they have behind the wheel. We don't know how much longer 4th edition will be around nor do we know what "support the old editions" really means. I mean, if it's just converting the old editions to PDF and then selling them on their website then that may only require a few people.

I do believe what Mearls is brainstorming is likely to be the next edition, or the new skirmish game could be an experiment to how the next edition may be. If the game explodes with the fans then we could see a big shift in D&D. But right now it's all speculation.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

3.5 D&D Archives WotC has quite extensive 3.5 archives online for free you all know that right? This is all FREE, there's little to no point in putting it in DDI. As for a Compendium for 3.5 there are already SEVERAL excellent online searchable SRDs, including the PF SRD, the WotC 3.5 SRD (not searchable really, but there it is...). It would be a bit nicer to have it in a Compendium, but seriously, how many people will pay $6-10 a month for what they already have?

As for actually IMPLEMENTING other editions in a Compendium... It ain't all THAT simple. Creating the application is one thing, that would require a decent amount of work, but could be based on enough of the 4e Compendium to probably make it a doable task in that sense. The bigger task would be milling through 10k pages worth of material for whatever edition was wanting to be supported and entering all the data. Remember too, what you see as 'Compendium' is only the tip of an iceberg. There are all the tools used to enter and manage the data, databases, servers, etc. ALL of that stuff has to be retooled to support the very different rules of different editions. This is very much nontrivial and would require significant outlay of manpower, all taken away from the already stretched 4e tool development and maintenance.

Finally I just don't see how this would be monetized. Nobody is going to subscribe to DDI to get a smattering of support for some earlier edition they like to play. WotC could decide "ok, we'll support 1e" but that's only a small fraction of the fans of older editions. If they only support that one maybe eventually they could make it as supported as 4e is, but short of that nobody that plays 1e still is going to pay for 1e DDI. If 5% of the people that play D&D will be attracted by that 1e DDI that's like 1/5th or 1/10th of the people that the same feature in 4e DDI would appeal to. The subset of people that both play 1e still AND are going to be sucked into playing 4e by being attracted to a 1e DDI is what, 1/2, 1/3, 1/20th? of the 1e playing people. Is that 50 people? 100 people? It ain't a lot. I'm betting putting that effort into a set of hot 4e DDI articles and some MB patches will hands down get more new customers than the ENTIRETY of what they can get from 1e support. The same argument can be made for OD&D, 2e, and BECMI.

I'm sure Mike and the D&D team would LOVE to support all these old versions. Mike clearly likes 1e and has a weak spot in his heart for it. I'm sure other WotC people like older editions too. Heck, plenty of them were TSR people back in the day. Seriously, it is all a matter of what can be viably supported in a business sense.

Now, there could be some creative ways to create a support base for older editions. I just wouldn't do it WITHIN WotC. Find some small company that is interested in OSR type gaming. Make a deal with them. Let them put together PDFs and whatever and then back them up on distributing it, lend them the WotC name, the WotC digital online presence. Let them take the risk, give them a cut of any revenue that comes out of it, and just make sure they do a decent quality job. One of these OSR shops would probably LEAP at the chance to be able to have distribution rights on old edition material. Doing it internal to WotC is probably too expensive, but letting the risk be born by someone else MIGHT make sense. It would be tricky to make it work, but if the resources put in is very small it might be viable.

Really though, considering the amount irrational WotC hate that goes around, I don't know that ANYTHING they can ever do is going to make much difference. The people who love to hate on WotC don't do it for sensible reasons. They do it because they need someone to rag on and WotC makes an ideal Great Satan for them to rail against. Objectively WotC's actions have never been unreasonable or worse than that of any other game company, they're just the big boys in the industry and everyone loves to hate on that. TSR got the same treatment in their day too, people called the NAZIs and every other stupid thing for years and they could do nothing that changed that nonsense. I think it is time for WotC to just realize that trying to make the whole community love them is a pipe dream and chasing that phantom is just throwing money into a pit.

 

[darkwing]

The old editions don't need or want WotC support. WotC should be focused on supporting the current edition and coming up with new ideas. Let non-WotC companies cater to the people playing under the older systems. IMO, having multiple companies involved in the hobby is preferable to Hasbro doing everything itself anyway.

 

[rangerjohn]

This is really two questions. Do I think there is anything they can do to make me want to play 4e? No, not without fundamentally changing the system. This is not going to happen. Do I think a 5e, 6e etc; could change that? Sure, but it would be at the expense of the people who like 4e. They are really two totally different play styles. Like I have said on another thread, 4e just doesn't feel like D&D to me. It is more akin minature war gaming. Two valid hobbies. They just are not the same thing. Here is something I realize as well, D&D grew out of war gaming. But in the process of its growing it changed. I personly enjoy rpgs rather than wargaming. Whatever the medium, I don't like RTS video games either. So once again, they are both valid hobbies, but they are very different.