Can you cleave after making an AoO?

[kreynolds]

I do not think you can deny that A died because B was standing in the same room being stupid. Note that B could have been standing 10 or 15 feet away, much further with reach, so "he was covering your back" arguments do not apply.

I can deny that because of how I believe Cleave functions, as per my previous quote...

NOTE: I don't read "creature in the immediate vicinity" as "anyone within your threat range". I read that as "creature adjacent to your fallen target within your threat range".

That fails the common sense test in my book.

Allowing someone to Cleave into a target that is not directly adjacent to the target they just dropped fails the common sense test in my book. It all depends on how you see Cleave functioning.

 

[Antikinesis]

Originally posted by mikebr99

But you will agree that you are in 'house rule' territory?

Because by the rules, a cleave is extra or free from what ever caused it, same as an AoO...

Okay, you and Not-Sean (K.Reynolds, I mean ) make good points. I was viewing Cleave as having to be part of an attack action, but I don't guess that has to be the case.

Looking at the infamous SRD... Cleave only requires that you damage a foe enough to drop him/her/it, to get another attack. I'd sure like to see something about requiring a melee attack to do so. Does the PHB description disallow missile/magic/other means of dealing damage to make Cleave an available option?

-AK

Antikinesis marks his calendar. He admitted he was wrong.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can you cleave after making an AoO?

I would argue that it doesn't make sense in the context of d20 rules that you are more vulnerable to attack because a moron is standing next to you than thin air.

That argument doesn't apply. You are not vulnerable because your buddy is a moron, and I never said that. What I said was that because your buddy is a moron and provoked an attack of opportunity, you are vulnerable because of the big-ol'-damn-powerhouse-of-a-swing that's coming your way through your buddy's split torso.

Can my Fighter create an Air Cleaving Technique where I get AoOs against imaginary opponents then cleave into the real ones?

Did you have a point here? I didn't catch it through the dripping sarcasm.

 

[kreynolds]

Does the PHB description disallow missile/magic/other means of dealing damage to make Cleave an available option?

Not directly, as far as I know, but there might be something in the FAQ, sage reply, or something else. However, Cleave requires Power Attack as a prereq, and Power Attack only applies to melee attacks, so the deduction can be easily and logically made that Cleave applies only to melee attacks.

 

[mikebr99]

Okay, you and Not-Sean (K.Reynolds, I mean ) make good points. I was viewing Cleave as having to be part of an attack action, but I don't guess that has to be the case.

Looking at the infamous SRD... Cleave only requires that you damage a foe enough to drop him/her/it, to get another attack. I'd sure like to see something about requiring a melee attack to do so. Does the PHB description disallow missile/magic/other means of dealing damage to make Cleave an available option?

-AK

Antikinesis marks his calendar. He admitted he was wrong.

Melee weapons only...

CLEAVE [General]
You can follow through with powerful blows.
Prerequisites: Str 13+, Power Attack.
Benefit: If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points, killing it, etc.), you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature in the immediate vicinity. You cannot take a 5-foot step before making this extra attack. The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature. You can use this ability once per round.

 

[kreynolds]

Heh, I guess if you put the puzzle together, it does state it applies to melee weapons only right there in the description.

Take this...

The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature.

...and add it to this...

you get an immediate, extra melee attack

...and you get a complete answer. Nifty.

 

[mikebr99]

And in the immediate vicinity... means cleaving a target in an adjacent square to the target that you just killed.

[edit] Not 180 degrees away... not kill small baddie - cleave big baddie...wash-rince-repeat

 

[kreynolds]

And in the immediate vicinity... means cleaving a target in an adjacent square to the target that you just killed.

That's how I see it anyway.

 

[thalmin]

First, I invoke Rule 0.
Because an AoO is provoked, a resulting cleave only works if second target also provokes. So as not to lose the cleave, I have ruled the AoO for this round hasn't been used up. However, no cleave will be possible on second AoO unles Greater Cleave was taken.
Thank you all for your arguments and suggestions. It has allowed me to evaluate this before before it became an issue in my campaign, and I will inform my players BEFORE it comes up in combat.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can you cleave after making an AoO?

Did you have a point here? I didn't catch it through the dripping sarcasm.

My point is it should not be easier to cleave a dumb lump of meat than thin air.

Look at case 1 and case 2 in my previous posts.

It begs the question why I can't AoO thin air or WWA + GC thin air to generate free attacks.