Can you define the role of the Balor?

[Upper_Krust]

Hey all!

Some monsters are just tougher to pidgeonhole than others. How would you define the role of the Balor (and by extension, its Level)?

Are they...

"Minions"?...of Orcus for instance
"Brutes"?...certainly they are brutish, but perhaps too intelligent
"Soldiers"?...they wield weapons but are they expected to work in groups (perhaps at 30th-level)
"Elites"?...as demonic elite, they certainly fit this role.
"Leaders"?...certainly they may be Paragon Leaders, but are they Epic Leaders - given Orcus inclusion? Does that suggest two sets of stats (unlikely)?

If we assume Orcus is a Level 30 "Leader", should the Balor be a Level 20 "Leader" or a Level 25 "Elite" or a Level 30 "Soldier", or what?

It seems it could be any of the above.

 

[Imperialus]

I expect that with the higher level monsters we might see some blurring between the distinct "roles" that they are expected to fulfill. Balor's and other high CR creatures are pretty tough cookies so it makes sense for them to be a greater challange as an unsupported individuals without any glaring weaknesses. Makes for a better challange IMO especially since Balor's are a sort of iconic "boss" monster.

 

[Fifth Element]

Maybe "Squishers"? In that they squish your party into puddles of red ooze?

 

[lukelightning]

I'm gonna get flack for this, but I say "brute." Or perhaps "elite brute" if that is a category.

Sure, they are smart and have all these powers, but they are primarily a great big melee machine. I don't see a balor leading around troops, I see it kicking other demons out of the way so they it mutilate the PCs.

Definitely not a leader. I can't see a balor using its powers to assist other demons. It uses its powers for itself.... to, as I mentioned, mutilate the PCs.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

I would guess the balor fits the "Triathlete" role or whatever it was they slotted the dragon (and beholder, IIRC) into - a boss monster that's supposed to challenge the PCs all on its own, probably by getting multiple actions each round.

I'm also assuming such monsters will be available from 1st level on up; I see no reason why I shouldn't get a 1st, 2nd or at most 3rd level boss monster (though I'm not sure what it would be in the current D&D scheme of things). The balor probably fits around 20th level.

 

[gizmo33]

In a place like Moria, a "Balor" would be a boss monster. On the 9th layer of Hell a Balor could very well be a minion. The concept that monsters have just one possible role IMO is strange. Is this really the design goal for 4E monsters? Are the roles really necessary? That seems to me to be way too superficial, worse than alignment even. I can't for the "what role is this monster" threads to eclipse the alignment threads.

 

[Stone Dog]

In a place like Moria, a "Balor" would be a boss monster. On the 9th layer of Hell a Balor could very well be a minion. The concept that monsters have just one possible role IMO is strange. Is this really the design goal for 4E monsters? Are the roles really necessary? That seems to me to be way too superficial, worse than alignment even. I can't for the "what role is this monster" threads to eclipse the alignment threads.

Monsters seem to have roles in the same way PCs do. A monster will probably have a role dependant on what it is expected to be doing in that adventure. Orcs are mostly soldiers, but these orcs are elits and that orc is a leader and this orc over here is a brute and so on. I expect them to have certain base abilities by race then modified by what you want them to be doing.

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

The "Tactics Round-by-Round" in the 3.5 MM make it sound like a Balor might end up being an elite skirmisher (assuming that elite is some sort of extra designation, as the death knight info suggests). It explicitly mentions that he's best used as a ranged combatant thanks to his SLAs, and the tactics themselves are...

Round One: Fire Storm + Quickened Telekineses. Alternatively, summon some mooks to give himself breathing room. Presumably this means he's starting some distance away from the party.
Round Two: Insanity or Power Word:Stun. Either of these preps a target nicely for...
Round Three: Full attack.
Round Four: GTFO with Teleport or Fly to reestablish range.

As mentioned, he could also be something of a triathlete, but 3.5 suggests that a Balor plays keep away until ducking in to (hopefully) finish off a single PC before slipping away again. Hence, skirmisher.

 

[lukelightning]

In a place like Moria, a "Balor" would be a boss monster.

But the balor doesn't go around commanding and organizing troops. Sure, it's the biggest baddest thing in town and everyone better do what it commands, but it's not a "leader" in the D&D party role sense.

It's a brute, plain and simple. Something to go toe to toe with the party in melee combat, probably toasting them all with its fiery aura and making special attacks against people at a distance with its flaming whip...but still it's a melee brute.

 

[gizmo33]

Monsters seem to have roles in the same way PCs do. A monster will probably have a role dependant on what it is expected to be doing in that adventure.

If the role of the monster is dependant on what it's adventure context is, then why didn't the OP mention this? Isn't the question "what role does a Balor have" wind up being uanswerable without knowing about the adventure? Is what you're proposing the common definition for "monster role", and if it is, why don't you think the OP incorporated this into this statment?