Can you Hide from Scrying?

[TYPO5478]

If you cast a successful scrying spell against a creature that was Hiding, would you automatically be able to see the creature, or would you have to make a Spot check to see it?

 

[blargney the second]

There'd be a Spot check, but I'd apply a small circumstance bonus.

 

[Sejs]

The spell says you see and hear the creature. *shrug* I'd say it all sort of boils down to how they're hiding. Besides, even if you can't see them exactly, the spell's visual range is centered on them so you know where they are... smack in the middle of where the sensor is looking.

 

[evilbob]

I'd agree that a spell's caster should probably be able to deduce the general location of a creature successfully scried, but I don't think there is any reason why a hide check couldn't stop the creature from being spotted, in the same way that seeing invisible things does necessarily mean you can spot something that's invisible but also hiding. Even true seeing doesn't defeat simple, mundane forms of blocking vision.

 

[Sunfist]

I'd agree that a spell's caster should probably be able to deduce the general location of a creature successfully scried, but I don't think there is any reason why a hide check couldn't stop the creature from being spotted, in the same way that seeing invisible things does necessarily mean you can spot something that's invisible but also hiding. Even true seeing doesn't defeat simple, mundane forms of blocking vision.

I totally agree. Of course, in some situations, the effect would be very much the same. If you scryed a dude and your vision showed the the dark corner of your bedchambers, you might kick the door open to your room and launch a fireball into that corner.

 

[Henry]

That strikes me as a great scene.

DM: You cast your scrying spell, and see... *roll* a dungeon wall.
Player: I told you I was scrying Lassiviren the Dark! Why am I getting a Dungeon wall?
DM: Your spell is telling you he's right there... but you don't see him.
Player: All right, everybody, something's screwing with my spell!

 

[Nail]

I seem to remember PirateCat using a similar set-up for the interaction of Scrying (or was it Vision?) with Mindblank. (The Scry wasn't of the Mindblanked NPC, of course, but of his companion.)

The scene was described with everything except the mindblanked NPC. So when the scryed person talked to the empty space between his 3 other companions, you knew something was up.....

 

[Nail]

If you cast a successful scrying spell against a creature that was Hiding, would you automatically be able to see the creature, or would you have to make a Spot check to see it?

You have to make a Spot check.

As with all divination (scrying) spells, the sensor has your full visual acuity, including any magical effects.

Note it does NOT say "You see everything perfectly", or some such.

If the scryed individual was invisible, you wouldn't see him. If he's successfully hidden, you don't see him....so long as your scrying doesn't remove his concealment.

 

[Sunfist]

This is where you "stick it to" your PCs if you are a DM. You set up a situation that looks like one thing for them to scry, but is really another. A bad guy NPC who has two visible bodyguards sitting to his left and right, but six other bodyguards hidden behind him in the darkness. Seeing the visible ones makes the PC less likely to try to find hidden ones. You know, that kind of thing.

 

[Nail]

Of course, that BBEG with the hidden body guards has to fail his Will save.

Tangent: Have you ever noticed how nasty the penalties can get if your BBEG is familiar with the PCs *and* has a body part (like blood and such from a previous battle in which the PCs fled)? That -10 really hurts.

It's practically a "gimme" for the BBEG to scry on such PCs.