Can you solve this mystery? (My players stay out!)

[Jack7]

More or Less


If you assume what you see is best formal
Then the form never comes from the shape

But the turning of everything over
Is like the sliding of scales on the snake

When you look and you see what you notice
Then you notice the first thing you see

But whenever a man does his speaking
He speaks more or less mystery

So to each of the riddles that wander
Past the passing of what's most to note

Is less lettered than symbolic gesture
And the start is the end it denotes

But assuming the answer is hidden
Then the puzzle has start at intent

And so when you know not you're going
Start first where you're already bent


...And if you can't do that then at least examine what you already know about what you think you don't.

Because it's never really about what you don't know, it's what you forget about what you do know.

 

[Piratecat]

I'll note that even when cool and authentic (like this one is), in my experience these sort of puzzles are absolute death on campaign momentum. They're fun for the one or two people who like letter substitution, and everyone else sits around and talks out of character with nothing to do.

 

[greatamericanfolkher]

So if we number the symbols the outer line looks like this (if I haven't goofed up)

123 4536748 9 (10)94 123 2(11)248 9 51(17)6(10) (12)2(10)3(13)(14)39

The Middle looks like

483 (15)(16)(17)(20)4 4536(18)3 (16)2(10)(16)(18)(16)(18)(16)(19)(10)3

and the third looks like

83(17)3 6(16)3(20) 483 (21)9435 9(22) 41

 

[Jack7]

You cannot solve the writing based upon the information provided in this thread.

The writing is in an ancient language, because the tablet is ancient (or that is how it has been described).
Therefore it will not transliterate directly into English or any present cipher, code, or crypt assuming one was used.
You cannot even assume, because you don't know the language, that the symbols are phonetic. Or related in any way at all to modern languages.

They could just as easily be pictographic. Or ideographic. Or alphanumerical, but they are not English and so any words formed, assuming these symbols do form words, will not be in English. And English letter frequency charts will be irrelevant.

(There is one other possibility, that the words were added at some date later to or different in time than the graphic image. In that case they could be part of either a real ancient language, or a fake one. Of course the whole thing could be disinformation as well, but let's assume otherwise for sake of speculation at the moment.)

In either case since you have no Rosetta stone and because you do not even know the language (assuming it is a language per se) and cannot decipher or decode it from the clues provided the script itself is not germane to the true mystery, except for one possibility which I will not mention but is not linguistically relevant.

The translation therefore is not the mystery (though it could be tangentially related, it is in fact a deductive distraction - and an inductive one as well).

The real mystery lies with the other aspects of the tablet, with the other elements of it's nature in relation to it's supposed meaning and indications given about the overall context.

You also don't know where the fragments were discovered, how they were discovered, by whom, or why, so at this point you absolutely cannot draw any real contextually relevant information that would by association help to decipher anything other than what is obviously apparent.

In other words the tablet is both a clue to what is relevant and is a device which by it's very nature dismisses those things which you cannot yet use to make any deductions about it's true nature. The map is not the rhetorical territory.

Therefore the only real evidence at hand is the tablet itself.
The tablet is itself.

Think in that way.

Dismiss at this point what you cannot yet know and instead concentrate on what is known.

In other words you have to use what you do know, not what you don't know.
It is resolvable in that fashion.

 

[Greg V]

I think I'd just rent a boat and head west from Rome looking for a large X floating in the sea.

 

[Sigurd]

Beautiful Graphic

Very impressed with your faux stone. How did you make it?


My only issue with this sort of puzzle is really game logic. The party gets the various pieces. We put them together and then the players _not the characters_ have to figure it out? I don't see why my 19 int mage doesn't just make a roll when we have most of the pieces and you tell me or not.

Figuring it out as a player should get you bonus points. When I've done this the 'puzzle' has always been solved by the player of a brain dead meat machine. Presumably, Grok the illiterate orc barbarian had a brainwave and explained it all despite having a personal vocabulary of 52 words (inc. 7 for beer and 12 for beer & sex).

Still really like the graphic.


sigurd

 

[Heckler]

You cannot solve the writing based upon the information provided in this thread.

The writing is in an ancient language, because the tablet is ancient (or that is how it has been described).
Therefore it will not transliterate directly into English or any present cipher, code, or crypt assuming one was used.
You cannot even assume, because you don't know the language, that the symbols are phonetic. Or related in any way at all to modern languages.

A very good point. However, being one of those people who enjoy letter substitution, you've just killed my fun.

I think I'd just rent a boat and head west from Rome looking for a large X floating in the sea.

I like this idea, also.

 

[jdrakeh]

I'll note that even when cool and authentic (like this one is), in my experience these sort of puzzles are absolute death on campaign momentum. They're fun for the one or two people who like letter substitution, and everyone else sits around and talks out of character with nothing to do.

Very good point. Of course, I assume that the OP knows his players and, therefore, I suspect that they may be into meta-puzzles like this (i.e., puzzles for the players to solve as opposed to puzzles for the characters to solve). If my assumption is in error, then I agree that the consideration mentioned is very important.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

I no longer possess the brain power to solve such things, however I have two points I would like to bring up.

1. Comprehend Languages is a 1st level spell that seems to make the deciphering puzzle unnecessary.

2. Decipher Script is a skill made specifically for the purpose of doing what option 1 does only nonmagically. Are you going to let the roll against this skill to provide some hints (or with a DC30 allow them to totally understand the writing)?

I second the opinion that unless the players actually all enjoy solving puzzles, puzzles are a bad addition.

DS

 

[Jack7]

However, being one of those people who enjoy letter substitution, you've just killed my fun.

I'm sorry.

But here's a substitution you may find fun (although there could be more than one reason for it).

Assuming that is Italy, where is the Atlantic Ocean and where is the rest of the Mediterranean Ocean?

And why do the land masses look like that?

And why is the script patterned like that?