Can you take 20?

[DM-Rocco]

Appraise - no
Balance - not usually
Bluff - no
Climb - not usually
Concentration - not usually
Craft - Yes, but it will cost more and take more time
Decipher Script - Yes
Diplomacy - No
Disable Device - no
Disguise - no
Escape Artist - yes
Forgery - no
Gather Information - yes, but with possible consequences
Handle Animal - I suppose, but it will take a long time
Heal - sometimes
Hide - no
Intimidate - no
Jump - no
Knowledge - yes
Listen - yes
Move Silently - no
Open Lock - yes
Perform - no
Profession - not sure, probably not
Ride - no usually
Search - yes
Sense Motive - no
Sleight of Hand - no
Speak Language - n/a
Spellcraft - not usually
Spot - not usually
Survival - no
Swim - no
Tumble - no
Use Magic Device - no
Use Rope - sometimes

Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!!!

What about taking 10?

Can you please elaborate on the, 'not usually'? thanks

 

[DM-Rocco]

Taking 10 or 20 always drives me nuts from a DM stand point because I don't know what the player can really take 10 or 20 on and some rule lawyer always opposes me, no matter what side I choose. I think the players just like to pick fights.

It bugs me from a player stand point to, cause the DMs I have don't understand it that well either. So, for my players, and DMs sake, let's try and get a definitive stand point and consensus on what you can and can not take 10 or 20 on and I will gather all information and put it in the first post for others who wonder as well.

Thanks again for your time,
DM-Rocco

 

[Sejs]

What about taking 10?

Taking 10 is a different kettle of fish than Taking 20. When you Take 20, you're doing the task as many time as you need to in order to get it right, and as such you can only do it with things that you can repeat.

When you're Taking 10, you're just taking your time and doing it competently on the first go. You can take 10 on any skill check as long as you are not rushed, threatened, or distracted - with the exception of Use Magic Device which expressly states that you can't Take 10 with that skill.

 

[DM-Rocco]

Taking 10 is a different kettle of fish than Taking 20. When you Take 20, you're doing the task as many time as you need to in order to get it right, and as such you can only do it with things that you can repeat.

When you're Taking 10, you're just taking your time and doing it competently on the first go. You can take 10 on any skill check as long as you are not rushed, threatened, or distracted - with the exception of Use Magic Device which expressly states that you can't Take 10 with that skill.

Ah, got it. I thought that was true, but others have told me differently.

 

[Oryan77]

My group was discussing taking 20 on Escape Artist yesterday. Now, the PHB says you can only retry 'squeezing through tight spaces', but everyone seems to say you can take 20 on any escape artist check.

The problem we found with this is when it comes to binding with rope. If a pc can take 20 escaping the rope binds, then the pc would also take 20 on use rope skills when binding NPC's....wouldn't they want to make sure they bind them the best they can if they have the time to do it? So if the PC's would do that, so would the NPC's. That would give you a DC 30 for escaping ropes at the minimum....and no PC can make that check unless they have a huge dex & put lots of points into escape artist. Basically it takes the fun out of PC's escaping binds. It also takes the fun out of it when PC's take 20 binding up enemies.

I just look at it as the entire time you spent escaping ropes....not just 6 seconds. So your 17 check means you spent 6 seconds trying and failed, you've spent 1 minute and still failed, you spent 2 days and still failed. The binds are just too hard to escape.

 

[hafrogman]

Well, in both cases it takes (correct me if I'm wrong) about 2 minutes to "take 20". Don't have 2 minutes until he comes round? You can't take 20 tying him up. Gotta get loose while you're not being watched? Better hope that guard turns away for a full 2 minutes.

But yes, in general, it is difficult for an average, untrained person to escape from bonds tied by another average, untrained person. That is what encourages actually buying ranks in the skills.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

So, for my players, and DMs sake, let's try and get a definitive stand point and consensus on what you can and can not take 10 or 20 on and I will gather all information and put it in the first post for others who wonder as well.

Well, it looks like take 10 has been taken care of. As for take 20, it just isn't that simple. All those "it depends" circumstances make it harder to create a definitive list. It takes a basic understanding of the rule - no time issue, no consequence for failure - and then interpreting what that means under different circumstances. As seen in a few examples here, different people will interpret things in different ways depending upon the exact situation.

 

[frankthedm]

Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!!!

What about taking 10?

Can you please elaborate on the, 'not usually'? thanks

Some skills have multiple uses. But unfortunately some people think a character's ability factors into take 20, it doe not. If a consequence for failure exists. "take 20" cannot be used with with the skill whatsoever...

Balance - Cannot take 20, A failure by 4 or less means you can’t move for 1 round. A failure by 5 or more means you fall.
Climb - Cannot take 20, A Climb check that fails by 4 or less means that you make no progress, and one that fails by 5 or more means that you fall from whatever height you have already attained.
Concentration - Cannot take 20, the concequence for failure is the loss of what you were concetrating for.
Handle Animal -Cannot take 20 for rearing an animal.
Knowledge - does not allow for retries, preventing take 20
Ride - Nearly all combat uses, no time to take 20, Fast dismount has a consequence for failing.
Spellcraft - Most uses do not allow for retries, preventing take 20
Spot - Nope, looking for something over and over is Search
Use Rope - sometimes, but not for binding a character [skill has a +10 built in to account for that]

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Some skills have multiple uses.

Some of which should do allow for taking 20, even if other uses of the skill do not ...

Concentration - Cannot take 20, the concequence for failure is the loss of what you were concetrating for.

For instance, you *can* take 20 on a Concentration check to regain your psionic focus - as you could in any other new, similar uses for the Concentration skill.

Use Rope - sometimes, but not for binding a character [skill has a +10 built in to account for that]

Why not? There is no penalty for failure. There isn't even anything remotely like "failure" in this case - just a lower DC to break free.

 

[Beckett]

Why not? There is no penalty for failure. There isn't even anything remotely like "failure" in this case - just a lower DC to break free.

Because of this text from Use Rope:

You get a +10 bonus on this check because it is easier to bind someone than to escape from bonds. You don’t even make your Use Rope check until someone tries to escape.