Can you take 20?

[frankthedm]

Why not? There is no penalty for failure. There isn't even anything remotely like "failure" in this case - just a lower DC to break free.

You get a +10 bonus on this check because it is easier to bind someone than to escape from bonds. You don’t even make your Use Rope check until someone tries to escape. The check not being rolled untilled it is contested is why i had it in my brain no taking 20. But i'll admit you have a point on that one, i do not liking rogues much and a level one mook imparting dc 30 to 32 escape artist DCs is mighty tasty from the FranktheDM pespective.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Sean K Reynolds did an analysis of the 3E skills and Taking 20 here.

-Hyp.

 

[Mistwell]

Sean K Reynolds did an analysis of the 3E skills and Taking 20 here.

-Hyp.

Interesting. This one seemed controversial:

Hide: Yes, because there is no penalty for failure (really, there isn't ... a low roll means you're setting a low DC for people to Spot you, and while the result of your opposed roll may be bad, the roll itself is not a success or failure).

 

[KarinsDad]

Interesting. This one seemed controversial:

Hide: Yes, because there is no penalty for failure (really, there isn't ... a low roll means you're setting a low DC for people to Spot you, and while the result of your opposed roll may be bad, the roll itself is not a success or failure).

Sean was focusing too much on mechanics of the rules and not enough on what he was talking about.

For one thing, unlike crafting or opening a lock, you cannot really tell if you are hiding well or not. So, there is no "do it until you eventually get it right" concept with hiding. When you hide, you hide. You do not hide, and hide again, and hide again, and hide again. You get in position and hide. Once.

Secondly, even if you could Take 20 for Hiding, you can only do it if you have the time. You have to be able to hide for two minutes before someone could actually spot you.


Take 10 makes sense for Hide, but not Take 20.

 

[frankthedm]

I can see taking 20 with hiding...arrange some foliage outdoors or a few boxes indoors and blammo, nice liltte hiding spot...with L.O.S. to an important location. Of course it is all for naught if you move away.

Disguise:
No, because the normal Disguise check represents 10-30 minutes of work, which implies the patience and attention to detail assumed in taking 20 (plus, taking 20 would mean you're working on the disguise for 3-10 hours, and this isn't Hollywood).

This i disagree with. If someone wants to have a really good diguise for the masked ball, i say go for it.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I can see taking 20 with hiding...arrange some foliage outdoors or a few boxes indoors and blammo, nice liltte hiding spot...with L.O.S. to an important location. Of course it is all for naught if you move away.

There's no measure for success, or failure, so how do you know you actually took 20? Hide's an opposed check, so how can you fail repeatedly in the process of taking 20 if the person with the opposed roll is not there? Isn't the first roll a done deal?

 

[DM-Rocco]

I think I broke the idea bank, They could only come up with POST-APOCALYPTIC: 20 Mutations as a possible pdf to sell in connection to this thread. Usually they pop out at least 3.

Yeah me

Thanks for the great imput, and the link Hyper. I haven't viewed it yet, I have to go to sleep, need to get up early, but I will look at it tomorrow for sure.

 

[Mistwell]

Let's assume you are preparing an ambush for a building well in advance of your target arriving. I think you could take 20 on a hide check in such circumstances. You can watch the shadows, choose your location better, watch your own shadow in response to each new position, maybe use a reflective surface to see what you look like in each position, re-arrange and try it again until you find the perfect hiding spot for that general location.

 

[KarinsDad]

Let's assume you are preparing an ambush for a building well in advance of your target arriving. I think you could take 20 on a hide check in such circumstances. You can watch the shadows, choose your location better, watch your own shadow in response to each new position, maybe use a reflective surface to see what you look like in each position, re-arrange and try it again until you find the perfect hiding spot for that general location.

And would you still do your absolute best every single time, especially considering that you cannot see yourself hiding from all possible angles?

It sounds like you are describing Take 10 (carefully doing it when not threatened or distracted) more than you are describing Take 20 (doing it over and over again until successful or not). Another possibility is that you are doing it with a circumstance bonus.

But, you have no real way to measure that success with Hiding like you do with Opening a Lock.

 

[DM-Rocco]

Let's assume you are preparing an ambush for a building well in advance of your target arriving. I think you could take 20 on a hide check in such circumstances. You can watch the shadows, choose your location better, watch your own shadow in response to each new position, maybe use a reflective surface to see what you look like in each position, re-arrange and try it again until you find the perfect hiding spot for that general location.

Well, even though I am not a super model, all my female character are

Models, when they start out, do fashion shoots and such, but they don't know how they look in the shot cause they can't see what the photographer sees. However, eventually (raising in skill ranks Perform: modeling) they get an idea of what looks sexy and what doesn't.

Might sound a bit dorky as a comparison, but it works with hiding too. Eventually you get a feel for what makes good cover and hiding (rising in skill ranks) and you should have a fairly good idea if you can be seen or not. If given the time, I think you could take 20.