Can you take 20?

[Arnwyn]

Let's assume you are preparing an ambush for a building well in advance of your target arriving. I think you could take 20 on a hide check in such circumstances. You can watch the shadows, choose your location better, watch your own shadow in response to each new position, maybe use a reflective surface to see what you look like in each position, re-arrange and try it again until you find the perfect hiding spot for that general location.

This is how we use Take 20 for Hide, as well.

 

[Transit]

Sean K Reynolds opinion on taking 20 on Hide has always bothered me.

Hide is an OPPOSED check made against someone who is actively trying to SPOT you. That means you can't take twenty because failure would mean that the person you're trying to hide from has seen you.

Sean's logic seems to be that by taking 20, one half of the opposed roll can be "pre-rolled" before the opposed check, and therefore there is no chance of failure because no one is trying to spot you yet. :\ ???

(Using the same logic, could a sentry take 20 on a spot check when there is no one around, and then use it later to spot someone who is trying to sneak up on them? I say no.)

If someone takes time to prepare an ambush, I'll give them an appropriate circumstance bonus to their Hide check, but I think the "hide vs spot" opposed check is made at the moment that someone tries to spot them.

 

[lukelightning]

Yeah, no taking 20 on hides for me. Taking time to find a super place to hide/camoflauge? Fine, that's a +2 circumstance bonus.

 

[Nail]

...unlike crafting or opening a lock, you cannot really tell if you are hiding well or not. So, there is no "do it until you eventually get it right" concept with hiding.

....a good way of thinking about it.

 

[KarinsDad]

Well, even though I am not a super model, all my female character are

Models, when they start out, do fashion shoots and such, but they don't know how they look in the shot cause they can't see what the photographer sees. However, eventually (raising in skill ranks Perform: modeling) they get an idea of what looks sexy and what doesn't.

Might sound a bit dorky as a comparison, but it works with hiding too. Eventually you get a feel for what makes good cover and hiding (rising in skill ranks) and you should have a fairly good idea if you can be seen or not. If given the time, I think you could take 20.

You just described what skill ranks are all about, not what Take 20 is all about.

Take 20 is repeatedly doing a task over and over again until you get it right (or at least getting it as good as the character personally can do it). The super model gets one chance per photo of getting it "right".

 

[Nail]

....and here's another:

Hiding is not about completely covering yourself. Total Cover (or total concealment) means you cannot be seen, so there's no Hide check.

Hiding means using partial cover or concealment to the best effect. IOW: Part of you is still visible. (More technically: "within line-of-sight".) So its not as if - by taking 20 - you are checking to see if you are visible. Of course you are visible!

 

[gwythinn]

I agree with all those who are against taking 20 on Hide and on Use Rope for the purpose of binding prisoners. On those opposed checks, your character just doesn't know how well they did until their handiwork is actually tested. I also agree with Thornir Alekeg's suggestion that it might be possible with assistance (someone to view your hiding place from all angles, or to struggle against your bonds [though the latter seems somewhat pointless, as they're probably not the one you want to bind and you'll have to make the check all over again when you bind someone ELSE]), and KarinsDad has it right in saying that adjusting the relevant circumstances to improve your odds of success should give you a circumstance bonus.