Sepulchrave II
Legend
Steady Concentration.In addition to this, by late 3.5, I vaguely recall a Feat that let you take 10 on Concentration checks.
Yeah, that one’s borked.
Steady Concentration.In addition to this, by late 3.5, I vaguely recall a Feat that let you take 10 on Concentration checks.
That's the one, thank you. I was half afraid my brain had conjured it up out of thin air.Steady Concentration.
Yeah, that one’s borked.
The worry wasn't so much about losing your spell even if that risk existed, it was more about actually taking damage.Entering this discussion late, but I have yet to see a 3e caster who didn't max out or nearly max out concentration. Add to that the con bonus that they usually had because casters needed con AND the combat casting feat that they usually took, and you're looking at a +16 to concentration to cast defensively with a meager 14 con.
To cast a 4th level spell defensively, that 7th level caster needed to roll a 3 or higher. A 2 or higher for 1st to 3rd level spells, because I believe a 1 always failed. So while what you say is true that it was not guaranteed, not many spells were lost to defensive casting. And it only got easier as the caster went up in level. He gained +2 to his skill for every 1 point of DC increase due to spell level increases.
At low levels. The DC for 8 points of damage, the max for acid arrow, was 18. That 7th level caster would need a 2 or higher. A 4th level caster would need a 2 or higher for the average damage of 5 or less.The real thing casters needed to worry about in 3.5 was ongoing damage. A humble Acid Arrow was a far greater threat than opportunity attacks or spell resistance.
Sure. I wasn't saying there was no wisdom in getting behind cover. My point was that defensive casting wasn't really an issue.True, that defensive casting becomes relatively trivial past 6th level given the right feats and skills, although Combat Casting doesn’t mitigate against damage sustained from a readied attack (Skill Focus: Concentration is arguably better overall).
I’d still question the wisdom of a 7th level wizard being within the threat zone of a level appropriate challenge ( e.g hill giant) and I think that the general advice of getting behind the meat shield still applies.
Now that I think about it, did concentration work differently in 3.5 and PF1? I remember in PF1 there was a way to avoid triggering an attack of opportunity when casting, but it required a concentration check meaning that it was not guaranteed.Sure. I wasn't saying there was no wisdom in getting behind cover. My point was that defensive casting wasn't really an issue.
Plus you had to consider circumstances. If somehow that giant got up on you, you were likely to go down if you got hit anyway. That hill giant did 2d8+10 damage and a 7th level wizard with a 14 con would average around 33 hit points. If the wizard was hurt at all, he'd be within take down range for that AOO. Provoking an attack to get behind said meat shield was often not really an option. You just had to pray the spell you did get off would be effective enough.
Yeah. Taking damage was the primary way to lose a spell in 3e, which was why being able to cast defensively was so important. Outside of narrow combat areas in a hallway, monsters could often just walk up to the spellcaster without provoking an attack.Now that I think about it, did concentration work differently in 3.5 and PF1? I remember in PF1 there was a way to avoid triggering an attack of opportunity when casting, but it required a concentration check meaning that it was not guaranteed.
And I also remember that succeeding a concentration check when you took damage was pretty hard. Maybe Paizo made the check defensive casting more effective and upped the difficulty of succeeding a check when you take damage?
I mean, clearly we are simply in disagreement.
Because to me, executing the somatic components of a spell sounds a bit like trying to properly do the hand jive, chicken dance, and/or macarena.
And if you expect me to believe that you are protecting yourself better while hand-jiving all up in an enemies grill, than you are threatening to hit them with an oversized hammer, then I suspect there is little common ground between us.
Moreover, if these components matter at all, it's bizarre to me that nothing can impact the quality of their execution. Hell, even the D&D movie itself featured a spellcaster whose spells went awry.
For the people who think this is the way it should be, what are your fantasy reference points, because I'm struggling to think of something where magic is so predictable, reliable, and available.
So at the very top, we have been talking about whether the rules themselves are immersive. As such, the fact that the rules are the rules offers no support in this discussion one way or the other, which really carves out most how you responded.It could be that on some spells since it could be an "intricate set of gestures", on the other hand it could also be a "forceful gersticulation". So on many spells it is a matter of judgement.
Moreover, it isn't that dramatic on the spells it is described on (Burning Hands, fireball, steel wind strike, friends ....)
So what we are left with is RAW it is NOT this complicated on some spells and it could possibly be this complicated on others. So I guess you decide which it is this complicated it is and which it isn't.
No you are opening yourself up to attack more because of the weight and momentum of the hammer. The opportunity attack is supposed to be because you are exposing yourself right?
This is not the rules. The rules are pretty clear many conditionds could interupt a caster and any damage taken while in the process of casting will cause a concentration check. The key is this has to be done while casting and most spells are cast with an action. If you slow that down (through the slow spell for example), or they are casting a spell that takes more than an action you absolutely can disrupt it.
Also keep in mind we are literally talking about magic, so suggesting it is bizarre or trying to apply some sort of science to it, is itself illogical. It is magic, do you really need any other explanation?
The D&D 5E PHB, the Monster Manual and virtually all the published adventures.
FWIW...The opportunity attack is supposed to be because you are exposing yourself right?