This is the 2nd part of the series, the first of which can be found here: D&D 5E - Casters vs Martials: Part 1 - Magic, its most basic components
I have placed key information from part 1 in the spoilers below, for ease of reference:
In part 1, we looked at what can magic "do" in dnd, and tried to give it some categorization. Now we look over at Martials. The fundamental issue between casters and martials is that magic "can do anything" and martials "are limited by physical reality". This gap inevitably means that at SOME point in power, casters will become more powerful than martials. So in this section we look a little deeper at what the "mundane limit" really is in dnd terms, where has it been pushed already.... and where could we push it a bit further to let high level martials compete while still giving credence to the flavor of "physical reality". Note that for this discussion I am relying on truly "mundane martials", leaving out mystic warriors like monks....who already have flavor justification for breaking physical reality when it makes sense for the class.
So lets walk through the categories we established in Part 1, and see where we can go.
Essence Manipulation - The decrease of hitpoints is an easy one, the martials bread and butter. The notion of "death strikes" that can insta kill creatures already exists, and could be expanded. We can also use the concept of bleeds and "wounds" to represent ongoing damage and "unhealable" damage (aka max hp loss ala life drain).
In terms of hitpoint recovery, we already have second wind and the champion ability to regain personal hitpoints. The notion of "instant stamina recovery" is a common martial trope, and so we could push on this area as hard as we wanted to. It gets trickier with hitpoint recovery for OTHER creatures. However, we already have a link between "inspiring" and temporary hitpoints, and temp hp are nebulous enough that allowing for martials to grant temp hp seems well within flavor. Direct HP healing with "inspiration" is another step, and that's probably on the edge. Classes like the Warlord that heal through inspiration have existed before, but it has been controversial with some people. I think its an area you could push further in, but might be a little too much for some people.
Essence D/C - Raising the dead is likely outside mundane scope, that is a pretty hard physical limit to break. We could allow for very high level medicine checks or abilities to do the equivalent of revivify (after all, CPR gives us that power in the modern world). Animating Objects is also outside scope, though you could mimic some of it with high level weapon techniques (EX: A "dance of daggers" where you swing a cord of daggers and they attack like a swarm of animate daggers).
We can do a bit more on the destruction side. There is no reason why a martial couldn't break a wall of force if powerful enough, or perhaps be so strong they could destroy magic (ala dispel magic) with a swing of their sword. We could allow them to damage creatures normally resistant or immune to nonmagical weapons....just by sheer raw awesome. We can also allow martials to destroy large structures much more easily (again in the real world, rocks can often be shattered by proper attacks on the "weakpoint"), so the same principal could allow a martial to shatter a large pillar or rip a wall to pieces.
Knowledge Manipulation - Subtle manipulation is an area that would be fine for martials. EX: Starting a rumor that changes an entire towns belief in a topic. You could even allow a more direct notion, an example would be an extreme deception check that actually challenges a person's notions so strongly that it causes them to misremember things. That is an area you would need to be careful to stay within physical limit, but its an area that has not been used too much to date.
The notion of "high speed learning" or "polygot" type mechanics can be used if proper time is allowed. For example, the idea that a martial could instantly learn a language....too out there. Learning it in a week, crazy good but probably "possible" and so would be ok.
Knowledge D/C - In this area we introduce the concept of "secondary sources" or "henchmen". Historically 5e class abilities generally revolve around the character doing something, but there is nothing that says I can't have followers/informats/strongholds etc etc that give me abilities....and these abilities might allow me to break some of those physical limits.
Divination is a great example, while high knowledge checks could account for some of that information, there are many divinations that it would strain physical reality for a martial to "just know". However, with a "network of spies", lots of information gathering becomes very believable. Even scrying, the idea that you have spies everywhere that can spy on certain people could be believable for a high level martial.
Die Manipulation - This is likely one of the easiest areas to focus on for Martials. Ultimately all the die does is tell us how likely certain things will happen, but we already respect that all of the possibilities are possible for martials. And so we could ramp up this area in a number of ways.
A 1 round stance where all attack rolls automatically miss you, or vice versa all attacks in a round are crits. Ability to "take 10" on specific die rolls, etc. We already have abilities to reroll saves, that can be bumped up. Maximum damage on a weapon attack, minimum damage taken from enemy attacks, etc.
Its a little trickier when we impose manipulation on other creatures, though we still have a lot of options here. Granting disadvantage or forcing a reroll are fine mechanics....imposing an "autofail" is probably a little too much.
Die D/C - We already have a few abilities here, such as Barbarian Rage or Rogue Evasion. Resistances are well within scope, though pure invulnerability is probably too much. The idea of a "heightened state" that might add a 1d4 to your rolls or damage is a common flavor trope and would work well here.
Will Manipulation - The idea of being able to knock a creature's mind so hard as to cause temporary maladies like "confusion", I think is well within martial scope. Further, fear type effects are good here, we already allow for the notion that fear can overwrite the user's normal actions, and the idea of martials generating fear as a classic trope. Going all the way to like a "dominate" effect is likely the limit, its hard to justify complete control of another's body for a martial.
Will D/C - At first glance this might seem well out of scope for a martial....but if allow for the passage of time it becomes more reasonable. Take magic jar, the idea of completely changing a person's personality for another is crazy for a martial power.... but, if we allowed for mental manipulation over weeks....the notion of changing a person into someone else is not that out there. Modern cult examples show how much a person can be manipulated given enough time.
Normally Persuasion wouldn't really allow for a self-serving person to "die for you", but if applied over weeks, that becomes more believable.
Creature Manipulation - This is a broad category, and there are a lot of possible options. We already have bonuses to actions, attacks, and land speed for some of the things here, and could push those a bit more if we really wanted to. If we wanted to use the "fatigue" concept, we can probably push them further. For example, in real life we know people have shown bouts of strength far beyond normal capabilities in crisis situations. The idea that a martial has learned to tap into that for short periods of time seems very reasonable. Haste effects, super sprints, massive boosts to strength...all are reasonable in flavor if applied to the martial directly. We also can bring back the notion of "inspiration" to grant fellow party members various boosts, either through leadership or just the effect of being around us.
Creature D/C - This is a tricky area, though we have some tricks here to help us. Flight is out, but the idea of flying for "1 round" and having to land (ala an extreme jump) is more palatable, though even that is a bit much for some people. Bypassing barriers like a teleport is too much, though we have already discussed new abilities that might let a martial destroy a barrier (such a breaking down a wall instead of using a passwall spell to move through it).
Environment Manipulation - Again this is an area where a network of people might be useful. The idea of a stone shape is too out there, but the idea that after a week a crew of carpenters could do it....maybe. We can also use high level checks to help here, for example maybe a extreme tool check could generate an object that would normally take a week in a day. Not quite up to fabricate's speed but more in the ballpark.
The notion of a martial breaking the ground area them, causing a mini-earthquake and difficult terrain, that's a fairly common trope and an easily manipulation we could do. Or an archer firing arrows with strings to cordon off an area of forest is another possibility, though maybe a bit more forced.
Environment D/C - This one is pretty tough. Creating a separate environment ala magnificent mansion or demi plane is out. The idea that a martial could have many different strongholds is fine, as long as they themselves weren't too crazy. Creating wall or difficult terrain effects without specialized equipment is probably out.
Putting it together - High Level Martial Examples
So taking what we have brainstormed, lets put out some examples of high level martial abilities that could take over some "magic only" areas while still maintaining some martial flavor. Note: These are just for examples, I'm not trying to make them super polished or come up with the best names or anything.
Perfect Lie - On occasion, you can tell a lie so convincingly, that it causes the target the question their own memories. If you get a natural 20 on a deception check, and the check was a success, you may adjust the targets memory as if using the Modify Memory spell. The modified memory must be relevant to the lie in question (determined by the DM). A person subject to this ability can not be affected by Perfect Lie again for 1 week.
Beyond the Limit - You can briefly push your body beyond its physical limits, gaining great power but taxing your body. As a bonus action, you gain the benefit of the Haste spell. After 3 rounds, the effect ends, and you gain 1 fatigue.
Disintegrating Strike- You have learned to focus all of your striking power on a single small weakspot, decimating a target. When you hit with a melee attack against a creature or object, you may use a reaction to activate this ability. The creature or object is subject to a non-magical version of the Disintegrate spell. Once this ability is used, it cannot be used again until after a short rest.
Unstoppable Strikes - Your weapons ignore both resistance and immunity to weapon damage. When attacking an object that does not have hitpoints (such as force effects), assume the object has an AC of 15 and 30 hitpoints.
Dispelling Blow - After fighting magic for so long, you have learned that the essence of magic has weaknesses that can be exploited by the perfect strike. This ability activates when you get a critical hit on a creature. The creature is affected by a Dispel Magic. Use your attack bonus for any ability checks. If the creature is currently concentrating on a spell, they have disadvantage on the save generated from this attack.
Absolute Defense - When taking the dodge action, you may choose to use this ability. Until the beginning of your next turn, all attacks made against you miss (as if a natural 1 was rolled). Further, you automatically succeed at all saving throws (as if you rolled a natural 20). Once this ability is used, it cannot be used again until after a long rest.
Guardian Surge - Your desire to protect your comrades pushing your skills to even greater heights. At the start of your turn, if one of your allies is below half HP, you gain the benefit of Bless until the start of your next turn.
Cry of Indominance - After taking a critical hit, if you are not unconscious, you may use a reaction to emit a battle cry that inspires your allies. You and all allies within 60 feet gain 10 Temp HP.
Perfected Form - You may choose to take 10 on any attack roll.
Network of Spies - You have eyes and ears everything, with access to nigh limitless information. Once per week, you may receive an answer to a question as if using the Divination spell.
Seismic Slam - As an action, you strike the ground with your weapon so hard it causes the ground beneath to shake. All creatures within 10 feet must make a Dexterity Saving throw. On a failure, they are knocked prone and take 1d8 + str modifier in damage.
Cult of Personality - Your legend, charisma, and force of will has drawn flocks of fanatic followers to you. Choose a number of humanoids equal to your proficiency bonus + cha mod, and whose CR is less than 1. These people are considered under the effects of a dominate person spell, but it is non-magical, and there is no saving throw.
The Dance of Daggers - Using ancient techniques involving thin string, you can move weapons so quickly it appears that they have come alive. As an action, choose daggers or tiny objects on your person. They begin to move and attack like the Animate Objects spell. The effect is non-magical, requires your concentration, and the objects cannot move farther than 5 feet from you. After the effect ends, you take 1 fatigue.
I have placed key information from part 1 in the spoilers below, for ease of reference:
First we have two fundamental "buckets" of magic.
Manipulation - The ability to "adjust", to increase or decrease. Most of this falls within the "rules", aka there are often non-magical ways they could be done, but can become system breaking when taken to its extremes.
Destruction / Conjuration: This is the ability to take out or create something, such as a totally new ability. This is normally abilities beyond standard reality, and is most often the purview of magic alone.
Manipulation - The ability to "adjust", to increase or decrease. Most of this falls within the "rules", aka there are often non-magical ways they could be done, but can become system breaking when taken to its extremes.
Destruction / Conjuration: This is the ability to take out or create something, such as a totally new ability. This is normally abilities beyond standard reality, and is most often the purview of magic alone.
- Essence - "Life Force", often hitpoints in the game but can also refer to things without a technical hitpoint pool. Temporary hitpoints would also fall under this.
- Manipulation - Increasing or decreasing hitpoints. Standard healing and damage spells.
- D/C - It might be tempting to put spells like Power Word Kill here, but those are actually just more extreme forms of manipulation. This category is for things like raise dead, animate dead, animate objects, or dispel magic..... things that can literally create an animating force or that can snuff out things that don't technically have hitpoints.
- Knowledge / Perception - Knowing things and seeing things through senses.
- Manipulation - Comprehend Languages is an example, languages can be learned normally this simply gives you access to that. Many illusions.
- D / C - Most scrying and divination spells go here, giving you access to information that you could not know normally. Modify Memory is an edge case, you could see that as extreme manipulation or as D/C. Also the ability for inanimate traps to "only trigger when XYZ creature's move past" is a good example of knowledge creation.
- Die - Altering standard probability.
- Manipulation - Advantage and Disadvantage or die rerolls. Foresight is an example here. Energy resistance is normally another. Anything that provides a final result that could have been gotten by the standard die roll is a good one here.
- D / C - Spells that add/subtract bonuses beyond the normal die range, or provide a roll when normally one would not exist. Bless is an example. Invulnerability is another (effectively turning all damage results -> 0. That's different than the half damage of resistance, which in most cases is a die result that would have been possible normally).
- Will - A creature's mind, personality, and ability to make decisions.
- Manipulation - Dominate Person is a classic example, or confusion. Things that could be explained by "mental maladies" are good examples here.
- D / C - Magic Jar is an example, where the personality of the creature is completely subsumed.
- Creature - Effecting a creature's abilities, powers to act, and move through the world. A "broad" category.
- Manipulation - Haste is an example. Even the powerful Time Stop is just multiplying abilities a creature can normally do. Even Simulacrum is an example here (though that spell would combine many traits).
- D / C - Alter Person, Teleport - Not because of the distance (that's just manipulation to an extreme) but the ability to go places you couldn't possibly go normally. Fly, Plane Shift.
- Environment - Ability to change the landscape or project force upon the landscape. Often different than creatures due to less resistance.
- Manipulation - The lowly unseen servant and mage hand are examples, as is continual flame. Stone Shape or Fabricate are stronger examples.
- D / C - Wall of Force is an example, or Demi plane.
In part 1, we looked at what can magic "do" in dnd, and tried to give it some categorization. Now we look over at Martials. The fundamental issue between casters and martials is that magic "can do anything" and martials "are limited by physical reality". This gap inevitably means that at SOME point in power, casters will become more powerful than martials. So in this section we look a little deeper at what the "mundane limit" really is in dnd terms, where has it been pushed already.... and where could we push it a bit further to let high level martials compete while still giving credence to the flavor of "physical reality". Note that for this discussion I am relying on truly "mundane martials", leaving out mystic warriors like monks....who already have flavor justification for breaking physical reality when it makes sense for the class.
So lets walk through the categories we established in Part 1, and see where we can go.
Essence Manipulation - The decrease of hitpoints is an easy one, the martials bread and butter. The notion of "death strikes" that can insta kill creatures already exists, and could be expanded. We can also use the concept of bleeds and "wounds" to represent ongoing damage and "unhealable" damage (aka max hp loss ala life drain).
In terms of hitpoint recovery, we already have second wind and the champion ability to regain personal hitpoints. The notion of "instant stamina recovery" is a common martial trope, and so we could push on this area as hard as we wanted to. It gets trickier with hitpoint recovery for OTHER creatures. However, we already have a link between "inspiring" and temporary hitpoints, and temp hp are nebulous enough that allowing for martials to grant temp hp seems well within flavor. Direct HP healing with "inspiration" is another step, and that's probably on the edge. Classes like the Warlord that heal through inspiration have existed before, but it has been controversial with some people. I think its an area you could push further in, but might be a little too much for some people.
Essence D/C - Raising the dead is likely outside mundane scope, that is a pretty hard physical limit to break. We could allow for very high level medicine checks or abilities to do the equivalent of revivify (after all, CPR gives us that power in the modern world). Animating Objects is also outside scope, though you could mimic some of it with high level weapon techniques (EX: A "dance of daggers" where you swing a cord of daggers and they attack like a swarm of animate daggers).
We can do a bit more on the destruction side. There is no reason why a martial couldn't break a wall of force if powerful enough, or perhaps be so strong they could destroy magic (ala dispel magic) with a swing of their sword. We could allow them to damage creatures normally resistant or immune to nonmagical weapons....just by sheer raw awesome. We can also allow martials to destroy large structures much more easily (again in the real world, rocks can often be shattered by proper attacks on the "weakpoint"), so the same principal could allow a martial to shatter a large pillar or rip a wall to pieces.
Knowledge Manipulation - Subtle manipulation is an area that would be fine for martials. EX: Starting a rumor that changes an entire towns belief in a topic. You could even allow a more direct notion, an example would be an extreme deception check that actually challenges a person's notions so strongly that it causes them to misremember things. That is an area you would need to be careful to stay within physical limit, but its an area that has not been used too much to date.
The notion of "high speed learning" or "polygot" type mechanics can be used if proper time is allowed. For example, the idea that a martial could instantly learn a language....too out there. Learning it in a week, crazy good but probably "possible" and so would be ok.
Knowledge D/C - In this area we introduce the concept of "secondary sources" or "henchmen". Historically 5e class abilities generally revolve around the character doing something, but there is nothing that says I can't have followers/informats/strongholds etc etc that give me abilities....and these abilities might allow me to break some of those physical limits.
Divination is a great example, while high knowledge checks could account for some of that information, there are many divinations that it would strain physical reality for a martial to "just know". However, with a "network of spies", lots of information gathering becomes very believable. Even scrying, the idea that you have spies everywhere that can spy on certain people could be believable for a high level martial.
Die Manipulation - This is likely one of the easiest areas to focus on for Martials. Ultimately all the die does is tell us how likely certain things will happen, but we already respect that all of the possibilities are possible for martials. And so we could ramp up this area in a number of ways.
A 1 round stance where all attack rolls automatically miss you, or vice versa all attacks in a round are crits. Ability to "take 10" on specific die rolls, etc. We already have abilities to reroll saves, that can be bumped up. Maximum damage on a weapon attack, minimum damage taken from enemy attacks, etc.
Its a little trickier when we impose manipulation on other creatures, though we still have a lot of options here. Granting disadvantage or forcing a reroll are fine mechanics....imposing an "autofail" is probably a little too much.
Die D/C - We already have a few abilities here, such as Barbarian Rage or Rogue Evasion. Resistances are well within scope, though pure invulnerability is probably too much. The idea of a "heightened state" that might add a 1d4 to your rolls or damage is a common flavor trope and would work well here.
Will Manipulation - The idea of being able to knock a creature's mind so hard as to cause temporary maladies like "confusion", I think is well within martial scope. Further, fear type effects are good here, we already allow for the notion that fear can overwrite the user's normal actions, and the idea of martials generating fear as a classic trope. Going all the way to like a "dominate" effect is likely the limit, its hard to justify complete control of another's body for a martial.
Will D/C - At first glance this might seem well out of scope for a martial....but if allow for the passage of time it becomes more reasonable. Take magic jar, the idea of completely changing a person's personality for another is crazy for a martial power.... but, if we allowed for mental manipulation over weeks....the notion of changing a person into someone else is not that out there. Modern cult examples show how much a person can be manipulated given enough time.
Normally Persuasion wouldn't really allow for a self-serving person to "die for you", but if applied over weeks, that becomes more believable.
Creature Manipulation - This is a broad category, and there are a lot of possible options. We already have bonuses to actions, attacks, and land speed for some of the things here, and could push those a bit more if we really wanted to. If we wanted to use the "fatigue" concept, we can probably push them further. For example, in real life we know people have shown bouts of strength far beyond normal capabilities in crisis situations. The idea that a martial has learned to tap into that for short periods of time seems very reasonable. Haste effects, super sprints, massive boosts to strength...all are reasonable in flavor if applied to the martial directly. We also can bring back the notion of "inspiration" to grant fellow party members various boosts, either through leadership or just the effect of being around us.
Creature D/C - This is a tricky area, though we have some tricks here to help us. Flight is out, but the idea of flying for "1 round" and having to land (ala an extreme jump) is more palatable, though even that is a bit much for some people. Bypassing barriers like a teleport is too much, though we have already discussed new abilities that might let a martial destroy a barrier (such a breaking down a wall instead of using a passwall spell to move through it).
Environment Manipulation - Again this is an area where a network of people might be useful. The idea of a stone shape is too out there, but the idea that after a week a crew of carpenters could do it....maybe. We can also use high level checks to help here, for example maybe a extreme tool check could generate an object that would normally take a week in a day. Not quite up to fabricate's speed but more in the ballpark.
The notion of a martial breaking the ground area them, causing a mini-earthquake and difficult terrain, that's a fairly common trope and an easily manipulation we could do. Or an archer firing arrows with strings to cordon off an area of forest is another possibility, though maybe a bit more forced.
Environment D/C - This one is pretty tough. Creating a separate environment ala magnificent mansion or demi plane is out. The idea that a martial could have many different strongholds is fine, as long as they themselves weren't too crazy. Creating wall or difficult terrain effects without specialized equipment is probably out.
Putting it together - High Level Martial Examples
So taking what we have brainstormed, lets put out some examples of high level martial abilities that could take over some "magic only" areas while still maintaining some martial flavor. Note: These are just for examples, I'm not trying to make them super polished or come up with the best names or anything.
Perfect Lie - On occasion, you can tell a lie so convincingly, that it causes the target the question their own memories. If you get a natural 20 on a deception check, and the check was a success, you may adjust the targets memory as if using the Modify Memory spell. The modified memory must be relevant to the lie in question (determined by the DM). A person subject to this ability can not be affected by Perfect Lie again for 1 week.
Beyond the Limit - You can briefly push your body beyond its physical limits, gaining great power but taxing your body. As a bonus action, you gain the benefit of the Haste spell. After 3 rounds, the effect ends, and you gain 1 fatigue.
Disintegrating Strike- You have learned to focus all of your striking power on a single small weakspot, decimating a target. When you hit with a melee attack against a creature or object, you may use a reaction to activate this ability. The creature or object is subject to a non-magical version of the Disintegrate spell. Once this ability is used, it cannot be used again until after a short rest.
Unstoppable Strikes - Your weapons ignore both resistance and immunity to weapon damage. When attacking an object that does not have hitpoints (such as force effects), assume the object has an AC of 15 and 30 hitpoints.
Dispelling Blow - After fighting magic for so long, you have learned that the essence of magic has weaknesses that can be exploited by the perfect strike. This ability activates when you get a critical hit on a creature. The creature is affected by a Dispel Magic. Use your attack bonus for any ability checks. If the creature is currently concentrating on a spell, they have disadvantage on the save generated from this attack.
Absolute Defense - When taking the dodge action, you may choose to use this ability. Until the beginning of your next turn, all attacks made against you miss (as if a natural 1 was rolled). Further, you automatically succeed at all saving throws (as if you rolled a natural 20). Once this ability is used, it cannot be used again until after a long rest.
Guardian Surge - Your desire to protect your comrades pushing your skills to even greater heights. At the start of your turn, if one of your allies is below half HP, you gain the benefit of Bless until the start of your next turn.
Cry of Indominance - After taking a critical hit, if you are not unconscious, you may use a reaction to emit a battle cry that inspires your allies. You and all allies within 60 feet gain 10 Temp HP.
Perfected Form - You may choose to take 10 on any attack roll.
Network of Spies - You have eyes and ears everything, with access to nigh limitless information. Once per week, you may receive an answer to a question as if using the Divination spell.
Seismic Slam - As an action, you strike the ground with your weapon so hard it causes the ground beneath to shake. All creatures within 10 feet must make a Dexterity Saving throw. On a failure, they are knocked prone and take 1d8 + str modifier in damage.
Cult of Personality - Your legend, charisma, and force of will has drawn flocks of fanatic followers to you. Choose a number of humanoids equal to your proficiency bonus + cha mod, and whose CR is less than 1. These people are considered under the effects of a dominate person spell, but it is non-magical, and there is no saving throw.
The Dance of Daggers - Using ancient techniques involving thin string, you can move weapons so quickly it appears that they have come alive. As an action, choose daggers or tiny objects on your person. They begin to move and attack like the Animate Objects spell. The effect is non-magical, requires your concentration, and the objects cannot move farther than 5 feet from you. After the effect ends, you take 1 fatigue.
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