Casting spells underwater

[amethal]

Is there any penalty for casting spells with verbal components underwater?

(I know there are special rules for fire spells - that's not what I mean.)

It seems to me that being underwater might hamper being able to pronounce the verbal component in a strong voice - possibly even giving a 20% spell failure chance like being deafened does.

I can't find any rules for it, which leads me to believe there aren't any.

Anyone got any ideas? (Apologies if this has been asked before.)

 

[dcollins]

No. There is no such penalty in the core D&D rules.

 

[Goolpsy]

They theoreticly you say the same, so they should work, but to the listeners the air "reflect/hamper" the soundwaves in a diffrend way than water does.
Like Breathing some Helium and you get a weird Voice.

 

[amethal]

Thanks, guys.

My PCs are about to go for a long walk along a short pier, so I wanted to check.

 

[Pinotage]

I've recently completed my aquatic PbP campaign, and I've written up all the rules that I used for underwater combat. This game was for land-based creatures venturing underwater.

There are a handful of rules that I used for spellcasting underwater. In summary:

1) Require a concentration and spellcraft check to cast with verbal components while holding your breath.
2) Only require a spellcraft check if Water Breathing.
3) Can cast spells freely while under the influence of Freedom of Movement.
4) Spells with somantic components are affected by the water condition and require concentration checks against the DC of the water.
5) Material component remain unaffected.
6) Sonic and Electricity spells increase their save DCs by one half the spell level, while the save DC of fire spells is decreased by one half the spell level.
7) Spell effects remain largely unchanged, although it's really DM adjudication. Fire turns to steam, etc.

Hope that helps.

Pinotage

 

[azhrei_fje]

There are a handful of rules that I used for spellcasting underwater. In summary:

Good rules, overall. *yank*!

1) Require a concentration and spellcraft check to cast with verbal components while holding your breath.

I'm not sure this makes sense, though. Holding your breath, by definition, means not expelling any air. How can you cast verbal spells without expelling air? If my players are holding their breath, I'm not going to allow verbal spells to be cast. They can either choose a different spell or stop holding their breath and roll the check for drowning (I'll have to look that up).

2) Only require a spellcraft check if Water Breathing.

You mean instead of Concentration and Spellcraft, right? A single skill check seems reasonable to me.

3) Can cast spells freely while under the influence of Freedom of Movement.

Assuming they have water breathing or gills (from alter self), right?

4) Spells with somantic components are affected by the water condition and require concentration checks against the DC of the water.

Hmm, I like!

5) Material component remain unaffected.

Hmm. I think I'll use this as-is. I was thinking that components that need to be eaten or drank should also have Concentration checks, but that's more detail on components than I want to get into.

6) Sonic and Electricity spells increase their save DCs by one half the spell level, while the save DC of fire spells is decreased by one half the spell level.
7) Spell effects remain largely unchanged, although it's really DM adjudication. Fire turns to steam, etc.

I'm not sure I'd change either of these. Might be good for flavor, but until the players became comfortable with it, it would hurt the players more than help them...

What would you do about scrolls and spellbooks underwater? Sticking with just the RSRD, how should the PCs protect their written works? There used to be a spell called airy water, but I don't see it anymore.

My players are soon going up against the Water Temple in the RttToEE module, so this thread is particularly pertinent for me/us/them.

 

[Jack Simth]

Is there any penalty for casting spells with verbal components underwater?

(I know there are special rules for fire spells - that's not what I mean.)

It seems to me that being underwater might hamper being able to pronounce the verbal component in a strong voice - possibly even giving a 20% spell failure chance like being deafened does.

I can't find any rules for it, which leads me to believe there aren't any.

Anyone got any ideas? (Apologies if this has been asked before.)

Convince each of them to pick up a Neclace of Adaptation (if they can afford it, of course), and you won't have to worry about it, as they will be surrouned by a shell of fresh air, despite the water trying to crush in on them. Most will want it anyway to get rid of whatever penalties you settle on.

Necklace of Adaptation: This necklace is a heavy chain with a platinum medallion. The magic of the necklace wraps the wearer in a shell of fresh air, making him immune to all harmful vapors and gases (such as cloudkill and stinking cloud effects, as well as inhaled poisons) and allowing him to breathe, even underwater or in a vacuum.

Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, alter self; Price 9,000 gp.

(emphasis added)

 

[amethal]

I've recently completed my aquatic PbP campaign, and I've written up all the rules that I used for underwater combat. This game was for land-based creatures venturing underwater.

Thanks, those are interesting rules. I'll use them if the campaign gets a bit more water based.

I'm enjoying the little underwater side trek.

I just conned my players into wasting two chain lightning spells on a group of 5 large sharks. The sharks are CR 2 each, whereas the party's 13th level.

 

[Pinotage]

Good rules, overall. *yank*!

Thanks!

I'm not sure this makes sense, though. Holding your breath, by definition, means not expelling any air. How can you cast verbal spells without expelling air? If my players are holding their breath, I'm not going to allow verbal spells to be cast. They can either choose a different spell or stop holding their breath and roll the check for drowning (I'll have to look that up).

Sure you can expel air underwater while holding your breath. It just means that you're going to have less air in your lungs, which might mean you lose a couple of rounds on how long you can stay down. I didn't want to complicate that by doing so, so I decided that as long as you can concentrate to expel the right amount of air, and use your spellcraft to make sure the words you spoke while expelling air were pronounced properly, then you could cast the spell. So both checks are required.

You mean instead of Concentration and Spellcraft, right? A single skill check seems reasonable to me.

Since you can breathe freely, you'd only need to pronounce the words correctly in the water medium, hence the spellcraft only.

Assuming they have water breathing or gills (from alter self), right?

Yes.

Hmm. I think I'll use this as-is. I was thinking that components that need to be eaten or drank should also have Concentration checks, but that's more detail on components than I want to get into.

Agreed. The aim is to keep it simple yet at least somewhat realistic. Sure that bat guano is going to be slushy, but doesn't mean it won't work. Or you can rule that each component is placed inside a container that protects it from the water.

I'm not sure I'd change either of these. Might be good for flavor, but until the players became comfortable with it, it would hurt the players more than help them...

It's a little bit of added realism. Fire should work so well underwater, whereas Sonic and Electricity should. While you could increase the damage, that makes it very dangerous very quickly. Increasing the DC means those spells underwater do on average more or less damage depending on descriptor, which is not so damaging as a sonic spell doing double damage, for instance.

What would you do about scrolls and spellbooks underwater? Sticking with just the RSRD, how should the PCs protect their written works? There used to be a spell called airy water, but I don't see it anymore.

My players are soon going up against the Water Temple in the RttToEE module, so this thread is particularly pertinent for me/us/them.

My PCs only occasionally ventured underwater and weren't there for more than a few hours at a time, so no need for spellbooks. The RAW doesn't state what happens to scrolls underwater, but it's reasonable to assume the inks starts to run. You could always just sell, for 2 gp, a waterproof oil that you can apply to scrolls, in which case they'd be protected and the same rules for casting with verbal components would apply.

Water Temple, eh? As a player in a current RttoEE game, we're not there yet, and not sure if we're going to go there either. We've taken down the other three temples, and the Water Temple has attempted to negotiate with us, but I think we're going to head straight for the Outer Fane. We're going to get killed, right?!

Pinotage

 

[azhrei_fje]

Thanks!

Heh-heh, you're welcome.

Water Temple, eh? As a player in a current RttoEE game, we're not there yet, and not sure if we're going to go there either. We've taken down the other three temples, and the Water Temple has attempted to negotiate with us, but I think we're going to head straight for the Outer Fane. We're going to get killed, right?!

Pinotage

What do you mean, "going to get killed?" Haven't you already died at least once? My players are 7th level (7 of them now) and all but 2 have died at least once (the cleric has died twice). And they've only gotten as far as the Earth Temple. They're moving in on the NBC and I think there will be a death or two in there, as well.

This is a very deadly module/adventure/campaign. But it's also a great learning tool for DMs and players alike.

I'm trying to get the party to negotiate with the Water Temple. If they'll do that -- it'll take some work on their part -- I'll feed them a lot more information about the Temple of All-Consumption and they'll need that info later...

Have fun!