casting spells with surprise

[Carl Cuthulhu]

ok.

let me set the stage.

in the game i am running, the rogue in the party has been not getting along so well with the npc bard. so the bard who is a little on the chaotic and neutral bent of things has decided that he will simply cast charm monster on the wisdom 7 rogue.

the question i have is, how to deal with the casting of the spell outside of any sort of combat situation? now the bard will either just sneak up on the rogue while sleeping and cast it. cast it in place of a cure spell after a combat. or perhaps just cast it while talking to him.

so how best to deal with this?

thank you all, as usual.

 

[Crothian]

I'd do a bluff roll oppoesed by the rogue's sense motive. This roll with indicate if the Bard is successful to approach the Rogue in such a way that the rogue suspects nothing.

 

[Darkness]

I'd go with Spellcraft, myself. Of course, if he's surprised, he's probably out of luck anyway...

 

[Thanee]

The bard starts casting, surprise round begins, only the bard can act (his action will be the casting of the spell). Well and then initiative is rolled, which is only really important, if the rogue passes the save.

The rogue probably has no chance to find out about the bard's idea, but if you feel nice, grant him a sense motive check (not that a wis 7 rogue would have a great sense motive score, but who knows ) opposed by the bard's bluff, as has been pointed out above.

The rogue will probably be aware of the fact. that the bard is casting a (harmful) spell on him, maybe not what exact spell it is, unless he has some knowledge in spellcraft.

Bye
Thanee

 

[TrizzlWizzl]

What level is the bard? Can he attempt to fascinate the rogue, then cast the spell? If the spell fails, could the bard use Bluff to fool the rogue into thinking it was all "part of the act"?

 

[Archer]

Isn't forcing someone to your will the exact opposite of the belief system of the chaotic alignment?

I'm not a big fan of pretending to cast something nice and it really being something bad. I would suspect people in a fantasy setting would not be so easily fooled when everyone has a passing familiarity with magic.

 

[Carl Cuthulhu]

Isn't forcing someone to your will the exact opposite of the belief system of the chaotic alignment?

I'm not a big fan of pretending to cast something nice and it really being something bad. I would suspect people in a fantasy setting would not be so easily fooled when everyone has a passing familiarity with magic.

i do not see how forcing someone who is a little on the hostile side to be friendly towards you is against a chaotic alignment. but an alignment debate is neither here nor there.

but, sure everyone has a passing familiarity with magic. but how could someone with no spellcasting ability at all nor spellcraft skill have any idea what sort of spell is being cast upon them?

 

[mirzabah]

let me set the stage.

in the game i am running, the rogue in the party has been not getting along so well with the npc bard. so the bard who is a little on the chaotic and neutral bent of things has decided that he will simply cast charm monster on the wisdom 7 rogue.

Leaving aside the fact that this kind of intra-party conflict is appropriate only for seven year olds...

the question i have is, how to deal with the casting of the spell outside of any sort of combat situation?

The act of casting a spell immediately puts them into a "combat situation." The same applies for any other combat action.

now the bard will either just sneak up on the rogue while sleeping and cast it.

In this case you might like to give the rogue a listen check - albeit against a tough DC.

cast it in place of a cure spell after a combat.

Sense Motive vs. Bluff. Take into account the fact that the rogue is expecting the bard to cast a spell, so the bard gets a bonus on his Bluff roll.

or perhaps just cast it while talking to him.

Sense Motive vs. Bluff again. This time the bard gets a penalty because if he's going to cast a spell, he's going to have a hard time looking all innocent beforehand.

In all cases, if the rogue fails his check then there is a surprise round in which the bard gets a partial action and the rogue does nothing. The next round is a normal combat round. I can't recall exactly how waking up is handled, but it's in the rules somewhere.

Personally I think you should drop a tarrasque on the pair of them... and keep doing it until they roll up characters that get along.

btw, did you really mean to spell your username "Cuthulhu" instead of "Cthulhu"?

 

[Darkness]

Re: Re: casting spells with surprise

Leaving aside the fact that this kind of intra-party conflict is appropriate only for seven year olds...

Sorry, but that's a short-sighted point of view. Further, it's not exactly good form to insinuate that someone is immature just because you don't like some aspect of their game.
(And he said the bard was an NPC... )

 

[Darklone]

Psio telepath

There are worse things than charm monster... Psios empathic projection, it's 0 lvl...

Now how would you handle this one? Btw, who usually cares if a party member casts something? I guess players are usually rather lazy about the party wiz casting his 1001st spell that day. And charming spells... I don't think the victim notices them IF it works.