D&D 5E Casting Wish To Duplicate Homebrew Spells

[Storyteller Hero]

Wish can be cast to duplicate any 8th level spell or lower.

Now say somebody wants to cast a low level spell with enhancements that don't appear when upcasting the spell.

Some might say that triggers the danger aspect of Wish.

Others might say that as long as the tweaked version of the spell is not beyond the capabilities of an 8th level spell, it is still a spell that can be duplicated by Wish.

If the DM doesn't allow any spell [IN THE CAMPAIGN WORLD, NOT JUST FOR THE PLAYERS] outside of what's printed specifically word-for-word in books, then it would probably be a no-go to make a homebrew spell duplicated by Wish, but would that really be the norm rather than the exception among DnD campaigns?

The text of Wish itself does not have a specific requirement of spells only from printed books, nor does it require the caster of Wish to know how to cast the duplicated spell.

Where do you stand on this subject?

 

[Mort]

Wish can be cast to duplicate any 8th level spell or lower.

Now say somebody wants to cast a low level spell with enhancements that don't appear when upcasting the spell.

Some might say that triggers the danger aspect of Wish.

Others might say that as long as the tweaked version of the spell is not beyond the capabilities of an 8th level spell, it is still a spell that can be duplicated by Wish.

If the DM doesn't allow any spell [IN THE CAMPAIGN WORLD, NOT JUST FOR THE PLAYERS] outside of what's printed specifically word-for-word in books, then it would probably be a no-go to make a homebrew spell duplicated by Wish, but would that really be the norm rather than the exception among DnD campaigns?

The text of Wish itself does not have a specific requirement of spells only from printed books, nor does it require the caster of Wish to know how to cast the duplicated spell.

Where do you stand on this subject?

IMO of course,

If a homebrew spell is deemed, by the DM, to be 8th level or lower - there should be no problem casting it via wish. WITHOUT triggering the special effects clause of the wish.

I mean, the DM has determined that the spell fits under 9th level Wish duplicates any spell 8th and lower, so would be fine by me.

Now, obviously, that's 100% campaign specific. If a player said "ok, I made this 2nd level spell in Matt's campaign..." and one look says the spell is ridiculous? No obligation at all to allow with wish.

 

[Li Shenron]

I first thought you meant an established homebrew spell, and wrote a lengthy answer based on that, but on second thoughts it sounds like you want to apply some enhancements on the fly on a lower level spell. In this case I would not allow it without the "stress" effects, as it would not be really "duplicating another spell" but creating something new.

 

[Mort]

I first thought you meant an established homebrew spell, and wrote a lengthy answer based on that, but on second thoughts it sounds like you want to apply some enhancements on the fly on a lower level spell. In this case I would not allow it without the "stress" effects, as it would not be really "duplicating another spell" but creating something new.

If that's what he meant (maybe I read the post to quickly) then, yeah - I think that's right.

 

[Storyteller Hero]

I first thought you meant an established homebrew spell, and wrote a lengthy answer based on that, but on second thoughts it sounds like you want to apply some enhancements on the fly on a lower level spell. In this case I would not allow it without the "stress" effects, as it would not be really "duplicating another spell" but creating something new.

How would you define "established" then? In-game, the wizard may know nothing about the intricacies of faith that enable a cleric to cast divine magic, yet still recreate a spell that normally only clerics would be able to cast, by the description of Wish itself.

If the DM "establishes" that a spell has to simply fit the basic use requirement of Wish, to be a spell of 8th level or lower, then it wouldn't matter if it's a spell with enhancements "made on the fly" because Wish enables the casting of spells that even a wizard has not trained to cast. Yes it's homebrew, but if the parameters of the enhanced spell itself fit within the requirement, which is the breadth of 8th level spells or lower, then I would argue that there's wiggle room for the DM to allow it without penalty.

 

[Mort]

How would you define "established" then? In-game, the wizard may know nothing about the intricacies of faith that enable a cleric to cast divine magic, yet still recreate a spell that normally only clerics would be able to cast, by the description of Wish itself.

If the DM "establishes" that a spell has to simply fit the basic use requirement of Wish, to be a spell of 8th level or lower, then it wouldn't matter if it's a spell with enhancements "made on the fly" because Wish enables the casting of spells that even a wizard has not trained to cast. Yes it's homebrew, but if the parameters of the enhanced spell itself fit within the requirement, which is the breadth of 8th level spells or lower, then I would argue that there's wiggle room for the DM to allow it without penalty.

Enhancements "on the fly" are just not established spells - and thus don't qualify - unless it's just flavor or somesuch.

You don't get to say "I want to cast fireball, but it bypasses all resistances and has double the range - we can count that at about 8th level right?" and then cast it as a wish as an "established spell."

 

[Storyteller Hero]

Enhancements "on the fly" are just not established spells - and thus don't qualify - unless it's just flavor or somesuch.

You don't get to say "I want to cast fireball, but it bypasses all resistances and has double the range - we can count that at about 8th level right?" and then cast it as a wish as an "established spell."

The spell text DOES say: "...you can alter the very foundations of reality in accord with your desires." and there's no fancy setup for casting Wish like so many of the spells it can duplicate, so I'd argue one can indeed say [any spell text in metaspeak even if it's just a published spell with stuff tacked on] as long as it's within the bounds of 8th level spells.

Perhaps not in your campaign, which is your prerogative as a DM, but also not forbidding other DMs from allowing it as per the text of the spell itself.

 

[the Jester]

The question in the title and the question in the first post are different. I object. My answers to the two are not the same.

Homebrewed spells? Yes. Tweaks to existing spells? Now you're in 'dangerous wish' territory.

 

[Storyteller Hero]

The question in the title and the question in the first post are different. I object. My answers to the two are not the same.

Homebrewed spells? Yes. Tweaks to existing spells? Now you're in 'dangerous wish' territory.

By logic, a tweaked existing spell would be a homebrew spell, since a homebrew spell by definition is a non-[official content] spell, therefore a tweaked existing spell, which is not [official content], IS homebrew.

 

[Mort]

The spell text DOES say: "...you can alter the very foundations of reality in accord with your desires."

Yes, that's provided for in part 2 of the spell.

and there's no fancy setup for casting Wish like so many of the spells it can duplicate, so I'd argue one can indeed say [any spell text in metaspeak even if it's just a published spell with stuff tacked on] as long as it's within the bounds of 8th level spells.

Perhaps not in your campaign, which is your prerogative as a DM, but also not forbidding other DMs from allowing it as per the text of the spell itself.

You asked for opinions and are getting them. Feel free to disagree, but no need to ask for opinions and the disparage the ones you don't like!