D&D 5E (2024) Changes to the Command spell and its use at the table.

[Reynard]

Sure... as long as it meets the definition of "fastest means available" it's totally valid. Not sure why you ever thought I'd said otherwise.

Things that are suicidal do not meet the definition of "fastest means available" because they, by definition, stop the creature from fleeing.

 

[Zardnaar]

Sure... as long as it meets the definition of "fastest means available" it's totally valid. Not sure why you ever thought I'd said otherwise.

It means that if the only way to go is via a wall of ......

 

[Mistwell]

We like the Command spell in our games and have not found it, or the changes made to it, to make the game less fun. Control spells are lots of fun. It's the thing which changes the game from just bags of hit points. It's an interesting resource manipulation aspect to the game: removing foes from the battle for a limited period of time so you can focus on other foes.

 

[Reynard]

The wall of fire was across the whole room.

Approach/flee.

Halt or prone near the wall would have had similar effect..

Miss your turn is tge main selling point. At higher levels its very spammable. Anyone can have it if they want it bad enough.

3/4 of the party with it had it naturally. The 4th got it via feat.

Once DCs creep up around 20 even +8 with advantage is vulnerable to spam espicially via bonus actions. +8 is a good save in the MM as well.

This I agree with.

Honest, "grovel" is generally more useful because it grants your melee characters advantage.

 

[Mistwell]

Of course Command, the new version, will sometimes involve the impacted foe fleeing into something that does serious damage to them. The game is FULL of movement manipulation effects which are much stronger than a simple Command to flee now anyway. I mean, your barbarian can have a weapon mastery to push a foe into a wall of fire or off a cliff pretty easily too. Yes, forced movement is a meaningful thing in the game and Command is intended to have some forced movement options in it which will, like most forced movement, combine with other spells and terrain to cause a lot of damage. That's working as intended.

 

[Zardnaar]

This I agree with.

Honest, "grovel" is generally more useful because it grants your melee characters advantage.

Yeah grovel is generally the default. BG3 tactic.

 

[Zardnaar]

We like the Command spell in our games and have not found it, or the changes made to it, to make the game less fun. Control spells are lots of fun. It's the thing which changes the game from just bags of hit points. It's an interesting resource manipulation aspect to the game: removing foes from the battle for a limited period of time so you can focus on other foes.

Start hitting PCs with it. Cult Fanatics CR 2. At higher levels you can easily add 4 of them to an encounter

 

[Questianor]

Things that are suicidal do not meet the definition of "fastest means available" because they, by definition, stop the creature from fleeing.

That's a fair argument! If a creature deems it is likely to die from a given hazard before it gets very far then it might seek to take another path (if there is another path- if there isn't I think it would still be compelled to march through the lava). This argument also wouldn't hold against hazards a creature deems likely to harm but not kill it. But in principle the argument is sound, in some circumstances.

Approach of course demands the shortest and most direct route, so if the lava pool is directly in front of the goblin instead of behind it it doesn't matter.

 

[Questianor]

Of course Command, the new version, will sometimes involve the impacted foe fleeing into something that does serious damage to them. The game is FULL of movement manipulation effects which are much stronger than a simple Command to flee now anyway. I mean, your barbarian can have a weapon mastery to push a foe into a wall of fire or off a cliff pretty easily too. Yes, forced movement is a meaningful thing in the game and Command is intended to have some forced movement options in it which will, like most forced movement, combine with other spells and terrain to cause a lot of damage. That's working as intended.

Agreed, this is why I found the "Finger of Death" comparison made earlier ridiculous. The spell doesn't create any hazards, and there are already a million ways to push enemies into hazards anyway, some of them even cheaper. I don't think it's some ridiculously overpowered usage of the spell, and I do think this is actually intended in 2024.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

This is a reasonable argument for why a creature under the spell's compulsion might not go through the lava, assuming faster means of fleeing are available.


Suicide (or damage) is a side effect of the fleeing in this case.


The creature is not acting on a survival instinct, they're acting on a magical compulsion.

Which is built on the survival instinct in this case.