D&D 5E Casting with Shield - Bard Style

[The Grassy Gnoll]

Apart from the fluff intro which I quoted before the more mechanical class information states that...

Spellcasting
You have learned to untangle and reshape the fabric of reality in harmony with your wishes and music.

Spellcasting Ability
Your magic comes from the heart and soul you pour into the performance of your music or oration.

Bardic Inspiration
You can inspire others through stirring words or music.

Song of Rest
...you can use soothing music or oration to help revitalise your wounded allies

Countercharm
...you gain the ability to use musical notes or words of power...You can start a performance that lasts until the end of your next turn.

There is scope for an Orator bard rather than a singing one, absolutely. An oration, a performance, implies you either have the speaking voice of Morgan Freeman or Laurence Olivier, or perhaps you use the power of poetry to cast your spells...like ee cummings man from How to Save the Universe in 30 Days or your money back,
"Fa
aa
aal
Beneath
My might"

Personally, I'd rather my bard sang a song of war, or rest, or charm, than cast spells by. Being. Terribly. Shakespearean. Darlings.

Each to their own.

Although, re material components (which is the whole point after all), old fashioned jester types (a type of bard, really) would have a little mini-me on a stick. Nothing to say that mini-me can't act as a component holder, and can easily be held in your shield hand as a focus.

If you want to strike fear into your enemies by rushing into battle holding a dolly.

 

[mrpopstar]

Apart from the fluff intro which I quoted before the more mechanical class information states that...

Spellcasting
You have learned to untangle and reshape the fabric of reality in harmony with your wishes and music.

Spellcasting Ability
Your magic comes from the heart and soul you pour into the performance of your music or oration.

Bardic Inspiration
You can inspire others through stirring words or music.

Song of Rest
...you can use soothing music or oration to help revitalise your wounded allies

Countercharm
...you gain the ability to use musical notes or words of power...You can start a performance that lasts until the end of your next turn.

Yes!

Key terms (from my perspective): Heart, soul, perform, inspire, words, music, magic.

The bard concept is so much more than his musical instrument proficiency.

 

[Herbalizer]

Yes!

Key terms (from my perspective): Heart, soul, perform, inspire, words, music, magic.

The bard concept is so much more than his musical instrument proficiency.

Of course Bards can cast spells only with their voice (chants) ...that is the Vocal component (V), but like The Grassy Gnoll mentioned, and what we've been discussing for now 7 pages, it's the Material component of the spellcasting (M) that is the issue here. The Bard's spell focus IS a musical instrument ..so if you cast combat spells that require the material component, what a Bard is to do ? He can't just sing ..he needs either Material (from a pouch) or his spell focus (a musical instrument).

And we can twist the words how we want, but music is at the core of the Bard's concept...the description clearly mentions "musical magic" and "magical music"..."a bard weaves magic through words and music". Whether it comes from the "heart and soul" (or bloodline in the case of sorcerers), it doesn't matter, a spellcaster still needs to make something happen to make the magic manifest itself, and that is done through 3 components : Vocal, Somatic and Material. And nowhere in the PHB do they mention that a Bard is exempt from the Material component, hence he has to either "use" a spell focus (a musical instrument) or use Material from a pouch...

I'm not going to repeat everything that was discussed already, but if you did "help shape these quotes" (which I doubt), you might have missed the ball on this one because it ain't nowhere near clear what's the intended mechanics of spellcasting in regards to the spell focus for Bards, specifically during combat.

 

[mrpopstar]

Of course Bards can cast spells only with their voice (chants) ...that is the Vocal component (V), but like The Grassy Gnoll mentioned, and what we've been discussing for now 7 pages, it's the Material component of the spellcasting (M) that is the issue here. The Bard's spell focus IS a musical instrument ..so if you cast combat spells that require the material component, what a Bard is to do ? He can't just sing ..he needs either Material (from a pouch) or his spell focus (a musical instrument).

I understand.

And we can twist the words how we want, but music is at the core of the Bard's concept...the description clearly mentions "musical magic" and "magical music"..."a bard weaves magic through words and music". Whether it comes from the "heart and soul" (or bloodline in the case of sorcerers), it doesn't matter, a spellcaster still needs to make something happen to make the magic manifest itself, and that is done through 3 components : Vocal, Somatic and Material. And nowhere in the PHB do they mention that a Bard is exempt from the Material component, hence he has to either "use" a spell focus (a musical instrument) or use Material from a pouch...

No one disagrees that the bard must satisfy the material components of a spell in order to cast. I'm merely adding my voice in support of the understanding that the bard has decisions to make, and that there's nothing wrong with his current design.

I'm not going to repeat everything that was discussed already, but if you did "help shape these quotes" (which I doubt), you might have missed the ball on this one because it ain't nowhere near clear what's the intended mechanics of spellcasting in regards to the spell focus for Bards, specifically during combat.

Your lack of satisfaction is not proof of the rules lacking clarity. In my opinion, the weapon/shield/magic consideration presents meaningful choices, and everything is working as intended.

 

[Herbalizer]

Your lack of satisfaction is not proof of the rules lacking clarity. In my opinion, the weapon/shield/magic consideration presents meaningful choices, and everything is working as intended.

No, but the fact that everyone has a different interpretation of its mechanics is. Anyway, I only wanted to know what the consensus was on this and the answer is : "there is no consensus - to each his own", or "use a Material pouch for the (M) component during combat like a Wizard that chooses not to use a spell focus"

I'm satisfied with the information exchanged in this thread

 

[mrpopstar]

No, but the fact that everyone has a different interpretation of its mechanics is. Anyway, I only wanted to know what the consensus was on this and the answer is : "there is no consensus - to each his own", or "use a Material pouch for the (M) component during combat like a Wizard that chooses not to use a spell focus"

In perspective: The bard, cleric, druid, paladin, ranger, sorcerer, warlock, and wizard all use a component pouch during combat if they choose not to use a spell focus. (To be fair, the ranger doesn't have much of a choice.)

And I don't observe that everyone has a different interpretation. It seems more like everyone has a different idea about what a weapon/shield/magic-juggler "should" be capable of, which brings the mechanics into question. — In other words, it's not an issue of understanding the rules, it's an issue of expecting something different out of them.

Ultimately, I agree with your sentiment (that material components should be unnecessary for a bard), but the class exists within a shared framework, and I think it's solid nonetheless.