castle ravenloft ... again?

[Felon]

The big flaw is this plan is why would Strahd sit around while you foil his plans and get more powerful in the process to the point where you actually threaten him? He has so many spies at his beck and call that it is ridiculous to think that he doesn't know where the PCs are or what they are doing at almost any given time. He would come down out of his castle and finish the PCs off. Even an overconfident necromancer vampire is not going to sit idly by while paladins, clerics, a holy order of paladins and clerics, and their riff-raff friends go trolling around his backyard getting stronger by the fight and picking up magic to use against him.

Strahd would not just sit around in his castle waiting for paladins, clerics and whatever else to gain 4-5 levels running around in his backyard before squashing them. They don't even really need to go after him either, they can just sit around Ireena, wait for Strahd to show up to try and turn her (into a vampire) and dust his ass. Wash, rinse and repeat until powerful enough to waltz into the castle and take him out for good.

Well, Strahd's not a character from Downer or Order of the Stick. He doesn't grasp the concepts of XP and leveling. From a non-metagame point of view, it makes sense to try to fight a battle of attrition, studying the enemy and wearing them down before engaging them. The fact that it doesn't play out that way should come as a surprise to the villian, as it generally does in fiction.

As you say, he is the one who drew the adventurers to Ravenloft in the first place. He has his motivations for keeping them around that go beyond viewing them as a threat and annihlating them. Of course, bored, insane immortals are often content to toy with new adversarie (q.v. Count Magnus Li from Vampire Hunter D).

True, the heroes don't have to go after Strahd. They never have to go after the bad guy. They don't have to come to Ravenloft in the first place. Adventurers are assumed to be proactive. But there are certainly plenty of games Strahd can play with complacent PC's. If the heroes camp out Ireena, he can try to create diversions, attack the townspeoples elsewhee, take hostages.

 

[Hawken]

I'm sure Strahd could grasp the concepts of XP and levelling , however, he does understand that there is a lot of power in his playground and while he may have plans and reasons for drawing the PCs in, he's not going to let them go around gathering all this power, ruining his Fane locations (thereby weakening him in the process), and seriously oppose him. That's what the campaign is made for. Yes, a lot of areas to explore in more detail than the original, but after they gain a level or two, Strahd would turn from spying on them to executing them. I imagine he would be content to let them play in Barovia for a day, maybe two at the extreme, but once he can see fully what they can do, he'd take them out.

I'm not necessarily saying that's how the game has to or will play out, just that it is the way it comes across (to me) as it is written. With the original, the players come to Barovia, find out the village has problems, they have a problem (cannot get out without dying from the choking fog), and have to go after the Count to solve everyone's problems. There was a sense of danger in the original, a sense of urgency there before the DM even starts to play. This one isn't even written that way remotely. Despite all the spies, wolves running around howling and scratching at doors and such, there isn't really any urgency to propel the PCs toward the castle instead of letting them run roughshod all over the entire valley before even thinking about the castle. Except for the one shot idea which throws the PCs right at the castle.

 

[Pants]

Except for the one shot idea which throws the PCs right at the castle.

Well, doesn't the one-shot more closely resemble the original then?

Having not read the original, how much info was in there about Strahd's agents, the surrounding lands of Barovia, or various other encounter sites? Or was it primarily a 'Arrive in Barovia, big bad castle up ahead, go to castle, fight nasty, nasty vampire, maybe live, probably not' affair?

 

[Joël of the FoS]

Well, Strahd's not a character from Downer or Order of the Stick. He doesn't grasp the concepts of XP and leveling. From a non-metagame point of view, it makes sense to try to fight a battle of attrition, studying the enemy and wearing them down before engaging them. The fact that it doesn't play out that way should come as a surprise to the villian, as it generally does in fiction.

Strahd is overconfident, and genius. He got away with so many encounters before, by planning "what if" plans, that he likes to play. He is entertained by the heroes in his castle.

Joël

 

[Grithfang]

****Spoiler I6 Castle Ravenloft****









Here is a partial ToC of I6

Count Strahd von Zarovich: Who he is and how to play him ..................... 3
Fortunes of Ravenloft: The gypsy card reading that foretells the adventure .... 4
Lands of Barovia The Count's domain .................... 6
Start of the Adventure: A desperate plea for help ........................... 7
Lands of Barovia planned encounters
Meeting Strahd and his creatures ........................... 7
Svalich Woods Home of the worg wolves ..........
Village of Barovia: Once a prosperous town, now without hope .......... 8
Burgomaster's mansion: Where Strahd seeks Ireena Kolyana .................. 9
Gypsy Camp: Temporary home to Madam Eva and her troupe ....... 11
Castle Ravenloft: Strahd's home and fortress

There were very few encounters outside the castle, in fact most houses in Bovaria were boarded up against that "Devil Strahd". The downloadable city map is basically exactly the same as in the module.

To sum it up, it was basically assult the Castle.

 

[Felon]

Strahd is overconfident, and genius. He got away with so many encounters before, by planning "what if" plans, that he likes to play. He is entertained by the heroes in his castle.

You're pretty much reiterating my second paragraph above...

 

[SteveC]

I haven't had a chance to look at this book yet, but my FLGS says that it's in. I'd love to hear a little more about the new format for battles and encounters. I liked this idea when it was first discussed, how does it work out in practice? I hear "small maps" does that mean they're impractical to use, for example?

Thanks to everyone for your comments by the way...it's useful for a product like this!

--Steve

 

[w_earle_wheeler]

This isn't really on topic with the original post, but I didn't really want to start a second Castle Ravenloft thread. Also, the issues I'm talking about are being discussed here, so...

I took a look at the book in my FLGS today. $35.00 MSRP? I was almost in shock. Then I opened the book, expecting to see some pull-out maps to justify the price... but they weren't there.

The MSRP on this book is almost as much of a joke as the MSRP on the 2e Warhammer FRP supplements.

It really confuses me, as WotC also put out Dungeon Tiles, which seem reasonably priced and useful at the same time.

I really don't want EtCR to fail, though, because I want to see other old modules get a revamp.

For $23.07 on Amazon.com though it doesn't seem that bad of a deal... but it makes me wonder if WotC is raising the price on their books and lowering page-count in order to make more money through discount vendors and leaving many FLGS to look bad.

 

[jezter6]

I think one of the reasons for the hefty price tag is pure sales numbers. Adventures typically sell low (only the GM needs to buy), at least lower than core and player heavy supplements.

I'm sure due to the plan of lower sales, they also probably had a worse print deal than the core, and had to tack on that extra fee to the book cost.

Sure, $35 is expensive, and I could have gotten it cheaper. But I'm not angry I spent what I did. I find it worth at least $25, so that extra $10 was just for the convenience of getting it the day it came out. It's like buying at the 7-11 instead of going to Wal-Mart. You pay for the convenience of having a 7-11 just a few blocks away, so you don't have to drive 10 miles to the nearest Wal-Mart.

 

[jezter6]

I haven't had a chance to look at this book yet, but my FLGS says that it's in. I'd love to hear a little more about the new format for battles and encounters. I liked this idea when it was first discussed, how does it work out in practice? I hear "small maps" does that mean they're impractical to use, for example?

Thanks to everyone for your comments by the way...it's useful for a product like this!

--Steve

I haven't run it yet, but I will describe it for you now, but you'll have to look at it yourself to decide if it sucks or not.

The encounter format is basic. It's a 1 or 2 page spread (pages facing each other, so no flipping) that has the location map (usually at 1/4 page or smaller), as many stats as they can put in for the encounter, plus tactics for the combatants.

What's odd is that page count is low (at least for the price, IMHO), but they do waste a LOT of space reprinting Strahd's statblock in many of the encounters (at least the castle encounters). Since they released his stats for free on the WotC site, I'd rather had less of them in the book and just print out the web page and have it handy when I need it. One thing another poster said that's true..is that the main 'map' and keys to all the rooms are separated from the encounters, so you have to go from reading the description of Room 12b on one page, and flip 30 pages to the encounters, run the encounter, and flip back to the descriptions again.

Since d20 combats take forever anyway, I don't see this as a major problem (at least not one that makes the book not worth purchasing).

The small maps are just that...small maps. They're for giving you a room layout and letting you draw it out on a battlemat if you want to. The only map that would suck to draw out is the catacombs beneath the castle. Otherwise, individual rooms are fairly easy in design and can be quickly drawn on your choice of map drawing device.

The maps do give you all the starting locations of all the bad guys, including Strahd if he is found in that room.

I do like that they give out battle strategy for the bad guys. It helps a novice GM (like myself) get through them a little better with less prep work. Stuff like: Strahd starts out over by the table. He does not want to engage the PCs in this room, but if so, will fight for 5 rounds then change to bat form and fly to room 21a and wait in human form and attack the first PC that comes through the doorway. (this is by no means an exact quote from any room in the book, just a paraphrased example)