Castles and Crusades (NDA is lifted - ask questions, get answers)

[GravyFingerz]

You're not alone...I want C&C in my hot little hands now as well.

Oh yeah, I can taste that sweet boxed set right now. It's like candy, castle candy.

 

[RFisher]

Incidentally, if I were to play with two GMs, would I get different answers to the question "can I climb this tree?" based on the GM's mood?

Yes.

Indeed, I would say that two C&C games run by different CKs are likely to be more different than two 3e games run by different DMs. They would likely be more different than two oAD&D games run by different DMs. They would likely be more similar than two oD&D games run by different referees. (Gross generalization, of course.)

The player's would keep track of their saving throw DCs. At least, that's how I imagine it would be.

Different playtest groups have handled the attribute check mechanic different ways in play. Some groups have the players precalculate a target number including primeness, attribute modifier, & level. Some groups treat primes as TN 18 with a +6 modifiers instead of TN 12. Some groups the player just rolls & tells the CK whether his relevant attribute is prime or not.

how much customization of characters is there?

Race, class, & primes. Two characters with the same race, class, & primes are pretty much equivalent mechanics-wise.

Of course, the important differentiations are never about mechanics.

Seriously, if mechanical differentiation of characters with the same race, class, & primes is important to you, C&C may not be the game for you. On the other hand, I'll be very surprised if we don't see some add on skill systems & such from fans for people who want such things.

 

[Von Ether]

Hmmm.
So far, I am not total convinced, though I love the idea of a simplified d20. Nostoliga does nothing for me in DnD.

Pros:
Keeping Dual Classing/3e Mutliclassing
A simplified guideling for skill rolls
Rules that seperate players from battlemats and AoO (though I haven't used them that often in 3e.)

Maybes:
Racial restrictions on classes ... if this was done merely for flavor. I could like it since switching classes around would be an easy way to tweak a game world (Dwarves become Rangers when the world become flooded and moutains become islands) If it was done for game balance, it becomes a con for me.

Cons:
Six savings throws, no thanks. I like my three.
The guidelines for skills seem no less complicated than regular skills, not much motivation to switch.
To fiddle or create a new class from scratch, I have to tweak class features AND XP charts? ugh.
A crayon in the box ... cute, but to acutally use it on the dice is nostaliga too far for me.

I am all for a streamlined system, but all the nostaliga and sacred cows in the pasture don't do anything for me.

I wait and see.

 

[Akrasia]

... Cons:
Six savings throws, no thanks. I like my three.
The guidelines for skills seem no less complicated than regular skills, not much motivation to switch.
To fiddle or create a new class from scratch, I have to tweak class features AND XP charts? ugh.
A crayon in the box ... cute, but to acutally use it on the dice is nostaliga too far for me.

I am all for a streamlined system, but all the nostaliga and sacred cows in the pasture don't do anything for me.

I wait and see.

One thing to keep in mind about C&C is that it is extremely modular.

Hence if you want to use the 3.x system for saving throws, you should be able to do so with little problem.

With respect to classes, it should be easy, I think, to substitute existing class abilities for roughly equivalent ones.

While there seems to be a lot of nostalgia in C&C (a plus for me), my impression is that there are NO "sacred cows" -- or at least no more than what *you* want for your campaign (e.g. there is nothing stopping you from treating dwarves as a race of wizards).

 

[nicodaudel]

Nostalgia

Hmmm.
So far, I am not total convinced, though I love the idea of a simplified d20. Nostoliga does nothing for me in DnD.

*SNIP*

A crayon in the box ... cute, but to acutally use it on the dice is nostaliga too far for me.

I am all for a streamlined system, but all the nostaliga and sacred cows in the pasture don't do anything for me.

I wait and see.

The boxed set is a pre-release *nostalgia* product that contains only the most-needed rules and materials. The regular hardcover books--which are supposed to ship later this year--aren't depending on nostalgia for their usefulness. It's the flexibility of the system that TLG believes will appeal to nostalgia gamers, yes, but it's also the same flexibility that other gamers may find appealing for other reasons.

In other words, the crayon may or may not float your boat, but it's part of the fun only for those who are nostalgic for OD&D as well as for completists. I don't think TLG expects anyone to buy the box just for *that*, although they're supposed to be pretty nice crayons!

-Dion

 

[Joseph Elric Smith]

There is both Multi class and dual class options in C&C
Ken

Okay, I'm a bit confused now. I thought there was something analogous to the "dual-class" option in C&C. Or at least some other playtester assured me that there was.

Am I mistaken. :\

 

[Joseph Elric Smith]

Actually you don't all I do, is have my party roll a d20 and tell me what they get and whether it is a prime or not, and then I describe the outcome based upon their results. It is really pretty simple, and as the Ck you are of course free to modify it if you want to just say base 18 and tell th players to add 6 to their die rolls for primes you could do that as well it is still 12/18.

ken

So, if the entire party is, say, within a fireball blast, do some of the party members have different save DCs that other party members? I can't see how that is simpler than a +6 bonus that has already been factored in on your character sheet. It seems to me that the DM would have to memorize the Prime attributes of every party member in order to know what the save DCs should be.

What am I missing?


Aaron

 

[Acid_crash]

I'm back with another question for you.

Correct me if I am wrong, but in the older editions when a human dual-classed, he went from one class to another, just like 3.Xe multiclassing...but wasn't he restricted in what abilities he could use. I guess this would make it easier, and this is how I understood pre-3e D&D.

A human started as a mage, got to 4th level, then switched over to fighter. Now, as I understand it, the character could not use any magic abilities until his fighter levels either equalled or exceeded the mage levels, and then he could use the abilities from both classes. Is dual-classing going to work like that also? If so, that would be an automatic house rule in my games, along with the no armor rule for mages (going to use arcane spell failure like 3.e, just double the percentages).

If my understanding of previous editions is wrong, then I had a bad DM explain how it worked to me.

 

[GravyFingerz]

I'm back with another question for you.

Correct me if I am wrong, but in the older editions when a human dual-classed, he went from one class to another, just like 3.Xe multiclassing...but wasn't he restricted in what abilities he could use. I guess this would make it easier, and this is how I understood pre-3e D&D.

A human started as a mage, got to 4th level, then switched over to fighter. Now, as I understand it, the character could not use any magic abilities until his fighter levels either equalled or exceeded the mage levels, and then he could use the abilities from both classes. Is dual-classing going to work like that also? If so, that would be an automatic house rule in my games, along with the no armor rule for mages (going to use arcane spell failure like 3.e, just double the percentages).

If my understanding of previous editions is wrong, then I had a bad DM explain how it worked to me.

Your understanding of dual classing is correct. Unlike the pre-3e game, in C&C, you get all abilities of the classes, but you abide by all the restrictions.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Actually, you could use those abilities in 1e, you just got penalized EPs for using them.

In C&C, however, there is no such restriction. You change classes from mage to fighter and you can still cast spells, etc. You do have to abide by the restrictions of both classes, however, so even though you could technically wear armor now, you can't cast spells while wearing it.