Castles and Crusades (NDA is lifted - ask questions, get answers)

[Jackal42]

I haven't seen anything like "3e sucks" here either and I certainly have no intention of downing anyone's favorite game. I'm just here to answer questions. I do personally like C&C better than 3e (or 2e or 1e for that matter) so if a bit of my own feelings creep in you'll have to forgive me. But I, in no way, think any of the other editions or games "suck." I'm very big on "to each his own." So, FYI, that's where I stand on the X is better than Y issue in every case.

And you're quite correct on both issues. No battlemat is mentioned and the game assumes you probably won't use one. But there isn't anything that keeps you from (or makes it difficult) using one.

As for "common sense rules" that aren't covered C&C does indeed go back to the "GM's word is law." Some like that and some don't....that's just the way it is I guess. C&C is designed to give you a core system that covers the basics. This isn't to imply that it's incomplete or that basic translates into less clear or with huge gaps. It just doesn't get into anything the Trolls don't feel you need "rules" for.

I'm of the mind that if you want to climb a tree you do so automatically unless there is some reason you might not (in a hurry cause a bear is after you, being chased by the local city watch, etc). In that case it boils down to a dexterity check and end of story. That's probably how most people will deal with it. The use of checks to take care of simple things like this will be encouraged in the game.

 

[nsruf]

I really like the idea of a simple version of D&D with unified mechanics. And a little nostalgia is appreciated. But I have to ask how the rules handle something which has always been a major turn off for me when it came to playing 2E: initiative in combat. Or more precisely, declaring actions in advance.

I gather from the thread at dragonsfoot.org that C&C uses a d10, roll high, with no modifiers for either group or individual initiative. So I suppose it also requires you to declare actions in advance like older editions. So are there some decent guidelines for this? Like...

How specific do you have to be, and what can you change based on circumstances?

Can you react to the declaration of party members or enemies?

And how does the GM keep track of the action declarations of 2 dozen combatants each round without generating a huge mess of paperwork?

I've never seen a decent explanation of how init was actually supposed to work in 2E. Now I know that C&C is big on the "do as you please", but I'd like to see at least some guidelines for using a standard mechanic that comes up every session.

Or would you recommend I use 3Es initiative system instead? Any problems with that?

 

[Arnwyn]

Just a request: can we please have no comments that translate to "3E sucks!" in this thread? (in other words, "C&C is better than 3E because it does this and 3E doesn't!")

I haven't seen that. Don't become too oversensitive.

 

[Voadam]

How is xp and advancement handled?

When is the monster book due (so we can know when to find out about monster stat blocks).

 

[Aaron2]

The base target number for any Attribute check or Save involving a Primary is 12.
The base target number for any Attribute check or Save involving a Secondary is 18.

This seems really odd to me. Why have different "base target numbers" instead of just giving people a +4 bonus with Prime attributes? What is a base target number anyway? Do all saves have the same DC?


Aaron

 

[GravyFingerz]

How is xp and advancement handled?

When is the monster book due (so we can know when to find out about monster stat blocks).

Pretty much as standard D&D. You kill monsters and gain XP. When you hit the threshold for next level, bam.

Unfortunetly we don't know when the monster book will be coming out. Everything is on the anvil right now (we are still waiting to hear when the PHB is coming out).

 

[GravyFingerz]

This seems really odd to me. Why have different "base target numbers" instead of just giving people a +4 bonus with Prime attributes? What is a base target number anyway? Do all saves have the same DC?


Aaron

The 12/18 rule was done for simplicity. Prime and Secondary attributes differ by base number. Like most saving throws in d20 have a base of 10 + mods, in C&C, prime attributes have a base of 12 + mods and secondary attributes have a base of 18 + mods.

This defines what you are good at. The 12/18 rules applies to almost everything: racial features, class features, and saving throws.

Pretty much, 12/18 is easier.

 

[Aaron2]

The 12/18 rule was done for simplicity. Prime and Secondary attributes differ by base number. Like most saving throws in d20 have a base of 10 + mods, in C&C, prime attributes have a base of 12 + mods and secondary attributes have a base of 18 + mods.

This defines what you are good at. The 12/18 rules applies to almost everything: racial features, class features, and saving throws.

Pretty much, 12/18 is easier.

So, if the entire party is, say, within a fireball blast, do some of the party members have different save DCs that other party members? I can't see how that is simpler than a +6 bonus that has already been factored in on your character sheet. It seems to me that the DM would have to memorize the Prime attributes of every party member in order to know what the save DCs should be.

What am I missing?


Aaron

 

[GravyFingerz]

So, if the entire party is, say, within a fireball blast, do some of the party members have different save DCs that other party members? I can't see how that is simpler than a +6 bonus that has already been factored in on your character sheet. It seems to me that the DM would have to memorize the Prime attributes of every party member in order to know what the save DCs should be.

What am I missing?


Aaron

The player's would keep track of their saving throw DCs. At least, that's how I imagine it would be.

Let's take example of said party and lets make a Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, and Rogue. The Rogue and Fighter have Dex as a prime attribute. The Cleric and Wizard do not. Now, how I would handle it (and it seems to be the logical way) is the Castle Keeper says:

"Ok, the evil wizard throws a fireball in your midst. Everyone make a Dex save with a +5 mod."

Let's say the whole party is 4th level. The Fighter and Cleric have 13 Dex, the Wizard has 10, and the Rogue has 16. Since the Fighter and Rogue has Dex as their prime, their DC is 17. But the Wizard and Cleric, alas, do not, and their DC is 23.

The Fighter and Cleric have a +5 to their saving throw (4 for level + 1 for dex), the Rogue has a +6 (+2 for dex), and the Wizard has a +4.

The dice are cast, and the Fighter rolls - a 2!!! Oh man he stunk it, he got a 7 total - failure.

The Cleric rolled a 16 ... even with his +5 mod, that is still a failure, with a total of 21.

The Rogue, the luckiest of the bunch, rolled a natural 20 for a total of 26. Since he only needed to beat a 17, he feels like he wasted a 20.

Finally, the poor Wizard rolls a 14 for a total of 18. Sadly, he would have needed a 19 or 20 to beat it (and he curses the Rogue for his luck).

I hope this colorful example shows how 12/18 can be simple.

EDIT: Normally I don't think the DC would be that harsh. I just pulled a number out of thin air for the purposes of the example. But look how much of a rat bastard I am, only one of my imaginary players made their save.

 

[Old Fezziwig]

Is this really easier or just different? I'm not saying that it sounds bad, but I'm not necessarily convinced that 12/18 is simpler than having one set DC. I like the idea of six saves tied to the six abilities, but I'm not sure that's easier than having three saves so much as it's just different. Don't get me wrong here -- I'm not cracking on Castles and Crusades -- it does sound fun. Just a question.

Nick