CB Design Issue

[Markn]

From the PHB:

You can benefit from only one magic item that you wear in your arms slot even if, practically speaking, you can wear bracers and carry a shield at the same time.


Have the rules changed that I am not aware of? If you wield a magic shield, particularly a magic heavy shield, you should not get the benefits of magical bracers. The CB still lets you equip both and benefit from both. I know that you technically can still wear them, but you gotta wonder how many people are getting the benefits of both by accident because the CB lets you have both. It seems like a design flaw.

As a bonus question, if you have a non magical shield and have magical bracers would you let that work together? It seems the intent is to force a player to choose between offence or defence and using a non-magical shield and a magical pair of bracers is like double dipping although allowable by RAW. Is that their intent though?

 

[Ryujin]

It's a fault in CB. Report it, using the supplied link. They do actually fix these things, as the recent fix to additional damage from the Weapon of Summer, that I requested, proves.

 

[Markn]

I'm not so sure its a fault but more of a design issue. I could be wrong. If it is a fault, its a HUGE one.

 

[Flipguarder]

I'm not so sure its a fault but more of a design issue. I could be wrong. If it is a fault, its a HUGE one.

ummm.... isn't a fault a design issue?

 

[Markn]

What I mean is that I think it was intentionally done this way, precisely for the reason that you can use a non magical shield and magical bracers, which I'm not sure is balanced. The way shields are explained are kind of hokey to me.

Edit: The CB essentially treats shields as hand items but they actual fullfill the magic item arm slot (as well as hand...kind of).

 

[chitzk0i]

...which is why the Character Builder should not be an RPGA rules source.

 

[Chris Knapp]

...which is why the Character Builder should not be an RPGA rules source.

/Off Topic
Not that the RPGA cares any more. All the new changes to how games are reported and how characters are managed makes the RPGA less stringent than many home games I've been in.

 

[Markn]

Still, thats a pretty big exception to essentially allow 2 different magic items fit the same category.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Shields are special/weird because they can be enchanted as an arm slot item OR they can be enchanted as a weapon (in the case of a spiked shield). The only "slots" for non-magical items are "in hand" which is different than hand or arm, and the body slot for armor. In the case of light shield, you can even hold (but not wield) something while holding he shield.

If the shield is enchanted (and not a weapon enchantment on spiked shield) it would not work with other arm slot magic items (bracers being the most common case). The character builder should implement something to resolve this. (Perhaps the enchanted shield put into the off-hand slot would automatically show up in the arm slot. If a different arm slot item is put on, the 'effects' of the shield's enhancement would be supressed.

In the case of non-enchanted shield + non-shield arm slot items ... it isn't much of an issue. It's not just allowable by RAW, it's intended. The reason that you can't have two magic items on the same location isn't just a matter of being unable to wear both simultaneously, but that the magics interfere with each other. The bracer type powers would be the "any armor" type, while the shield prereqs are the ones that only work with a subset of those armors. The bracers enhancements were designed to be used with or without shields (although some obviously wouldn't work with shields because they encourage dual wielding or two handed weapons) but the shield enhancements only come on shields. So having proficiency with a shield is a prerequisite to those enchantments, and to take those, you have the opportunity cost of losing out on dual wielding or two handed weapon wielding.

In general: The shield magic stuff should be "better" as it's restricted while the bracer arm slot items are not. The bracer arm slot items work with normal shields, but enchanted shields are arm slot items for the purpose of "one enchantment per slot, two for rings" rule.

 

[Markn]

The only "slots" for non-magical items are "in hand" which is different than hand or arm, and the body slot for armor. In the case of light shield, you can even hold (but not wield) something while holding he shield.

So if I follow you, you are saying that non magical shields are hand items, even though they are strapped to your arm and, in the case of light shields, don't require the hand to use it since it can perform other tasks.

Logically, that makes the most sense, but they sure don't make it very clear as per the PHB:

As with armor, you need the proper shield proficiency to use a shield effectively. When you use a shield, you strap it to an arm and sometimes use the hand on that arm—your shield arm and shield hand. Shields grant
a shield bonus that you add to your AC and to your Reflex defense. If you’re not proficient with a shield, you don’t gain the shield bonus to your AC or Reflex defense.

Light Shield: You need to use your shield hand to wield a light shield properly. You can still use that hand to hold another item, to climb, or the like. However, you can’t use your shield hand to make attacks.

Heavy Shield: When you use a heavy shield, you gain a greater bonus to your AC and Reflex defense, but you can’t use your shield hand for any other task.

The bracer type powers would be the "any armor" type, while the shield prereqs are the ones that only work with a subset of those armors.

I'm having trouble following what your saying exactly here. Can you clarify this a bit?

Ultimately, the whole shield thing is wierd because one naturally makes the assumption that shields are in your hand but actually fill the arm slot for magic items. Its not an intuitive leap and its further muddied by two different types of shields.