CDG with nonlethal damage?

[irdeggman]

Hmmm, I'm not sure. Nonlethal damage is added in it's own "HP pool", not subtracted from your current HP total. So I am not sure what he was referring to here exactly.

If you notice his post he didn't state there was a limit.

He asked

Can nonlethal damage really exceed hp+10

And that is the equivalent of the -10 hp and you are dead rule.

And I agree with you, in fact if you take non-lethal damage equal to then your current hit point total you get staggered any more and you fall unconscious (it doesn't matter what your original hit point total was).

So it is a sliding scale.

Say you had 21 hit points at the start.

You take 7 points of non-lethal damage. (At this point you have 14 left before becoming staggered). {21 - 7}

Now say you take 7 points of lethal damage.

You have 14 hit points left.

But you only have 7 points of non-lethal damage left before becoming staggered.

(14 hit points {current total} - 7 points of non-lethal damage = 7 points of non-lethal damage).

 

[Notmousse]

You can beat someone with a million HP worth of subdual and it will not kill them. I would suspect most DMs would rule otherwise, but it's not RAW.

After a scuffle with a member of a notorious thieves' guild I attempted to 'take 20' on my sneak attack with a sap, but was shot down because the GM didn't want to roll that many dice.

 

[RigaMortus2]

And that is the equivalent of the -10 hp and you are dead rule.

I guess that is where I got confused, because while there is a limit on the amount of lethal damage one can get to (-10 HP), I don't believe there is a limit on the amount of non-lethal damage you can accrue.

Just thought it was weird someone would ask about a "nonlethal damage exceeding hp+10" rule, when I've never seen evidence of such a rule existing. Like, what lead him to believe there might be such a rule? Until AbeTheGnome comes here to explain, I will be kept in suspense

 

[Infiniti2000]

After a scuffle with a member of a notorious thieves' guild I attempted to 'take 20' on my sneak attack with a sap, but was shot down because the GM didn't want to roll that many dice.

I would've shot it down because it's not allowed in the rules and would be a really terrible house rule to allow it. Kudos to your DM.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I would've shot it down because it's not allowed in the rules and would be a really terrible house rule to allow it. Kudos to your DM.

I think what he means (I think!) is that the guy was already unconscious, and he wanted to sneak attack him twenty times to really send the non-lethal damage total soaring.

After all, if someone has 50 hit points and 60 non-lethal damage, they could wake up in a couple of hours. If they have 50 hit points and 600 lethal damage, it's less likely...

-Hyp.

 

[Lopke_Quasath]

After all, if someone has 50 hit points and 60 non-lethal damage, they could wake up in a couple of hours. If they have 50 hit points and 600 lethal damage, it's less likely...

Beaten into a coma. Won't come out for days, maybe even weeks.

Yup, sounds about right.

 

[AbeTheGnome]

OK, i didn't think this thread would ever be revived, but... the rules behind non-lethal damage are unclear in this aspect, i believe.

When you take nonlethal damage, keep a running total of how much you’ve accumulated. Do not deduct the nonlethal damage number from your current hit points. It is not "real" damage. Instead, when your nonlethal damage equals your current hit points, you’re staggered, and when it exceeds your current hit points, you fall unconscious. It doesn’t matter whether the nonlethal damage equals or exceeds your current hit points because the nonlethal damage has gone up or because your current hit points have gone down.

So, does this mean that when your nonlethal damage has exceeded your current hit points, you can no longer take additional nonlethal damage? If so, this means that no character could be incapacitated for longer than an hour from nonlethal damage, because:

You heal nonlethal damage at the rate of 1 hit point per hour per character level.

So, by the RAW, it seems that you can't truly beat someone into a coma, temporary or otherwise, with nonlethal damage. I just wanted to keep this guy out long enough for us to cart him to the town guard without any trouble, but it's unclear to me whether you can exceed HP with nonlethal damage, much less HP + 10 or beyond.

 

[irdeggman]

OK, i didn't think this thread would ever be revived, but... the rules behind non-lethal damage are unclear in this aspect, i believe.So, does this mean that when your nonlethal damage has exceeded your current hit points, you can no longer take additional nonlethal damage? If so, this means that no character could be incapacitated for longer than an hour from nonlethal damage, because:So, by the RAW, it seems that you can't truly beat someone into a coma, temporary or otherwise, with nonlethal damage. I just wanted to keep this guy out long enough for us to cart him to the town guard without any trouble, but it's unclear to me whether you can exceed HP with nonlethal damage, much less HP + 10 or beyond.

You will need to explain what you mean by the HP + 10 or beyond reference since it is causing confusion.

There is no specified limit to the amount of non-lethal damage you can take.

 

[Jesus_marley]

If it were me, I would house rule it that you cannot deliver Nonlethal damage to an already unconcious target.

Also, I would rule that any nonlethal damage delivered is calculated in full even if that damage exceeds the level needed to render the target unconcious. Example: A target that has 50 HP has already received 49 HP of non lethal damage. If he receives 2 more damage in the next hit, he drops and will be unconcious for an hour. If he received 10 damage in the hit he would drop and be out for 9 hours. In both scenarios, any damaged he received while out would be lethal. However, upon regaining conciousness, he could then be struck again for non lethal.

 

[AbeTheGnome]

You will need to explain what you mean by the HP + 10 or beyond reference since it is causing confusion.

There is no specified limit to the amount of non-lethal damage you can take.

And that's the problem. However, there is a specified limit to the amount of lethal damage you can take: HP +10, then you're dead. If nonlethal damage is simply a running total compared to your current HP, how can you receive nonlethal damage that exceeds your HP?

Also, keep in mind that the original post asked a very specific question about a very specific scenario. The enemy had been knocked out with Color Spray. He still had full HP. Could I perform a coup de grace with nonlethal damage?