Celestial Familiars

[Pinotage]

Let say, for arguments sake, that a 10th level Wizard gains a Celestial Weasel Familiar. The HD of the creature with regard to effects pertaining to HD is that of the Wizard, i.e. 10. Would this imply that the familiar had the celestial abilities of a 10 HD celestial, or would the familiar still be treated as a simple weasel with only basic celesitial abilities (Smite Evil, etc.)

Thanks!

 

[AGGEMAM]

Only the basics.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

Are you sure about that AGGEMAM? In the SRD it says

Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total, whichever is higher.

Aren't the abilities gained by a celestial creature through increase in hit dice "an effect related to number of hit dice?"

 

[shilsen]

Aren't the abilities gained by a celestial creature through increase in hit dice "an effect related to number of hit dice?"

The problem is that effect here is a very nebulous term, but I agree with AGGEMAM. If one views the abilities gained by a celestial creature as "an effect related to number of hit dice", arguably the same is true for a creature's feats, skill pts, etc. But those do not change as a familiar's master goes up in level. It would probably be safer to use "effects" in this case to refer mainly to external effects, such as spells, which affect the familiar.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Aren't the abilities gained by a celestial creature through increase in hit dice "an effect related to number of hit dice?"

No. The creature is a 'normal' animal of it's kind until it becomes a familar. So it's a normal celestial weasel, and tehn you add the bonus HD for being a familar.

 

[stephenh]

The Planar Familiar Spell from the WotC online spellbook appears to suggest that many of the abilities would be based on the effective HD of the familiar.

"If the target creature is your familiar, it gains energy resistance, fast healing, damage reduction, and additional damage for its smite attack as though its Hit Dice were equal to your character level."

 

[AGGEMAM]

The Planar Familiar Spell from the WotC online spellbook appears to suggest that many of the abilities would be based on the effective HD of the familiar.

"If the target creature is your familiar, it gains energy resistance, fast healing, damage reduction, and additional damage for its smite attack as though its Hit Dice were equal to your character level."

Yes, but that is for that spell only.

 

[stephenh]

Yes, but that is for that spell only.

Ok -- I admit it is hard to make general conclusions using just that spell

However, the actual result, as shilsen said, depends how you interpret the "effect related to number of hit dice". The creature doesn't get bonus HD for being a familiar -- for effects related to HD you just use the masters character level. So I wouldn't have thought it mattered if the creature started as a celestial creature first -- if a 10th level wizard made it their familiar it would gain the qualities of a 10HD celestial creature.

This doesn't seem too unbalanced to me (although maybe I haven't thought about it enough). For example, if a 10th level wizard with the improved familiar feat took say a celestial hawk (using examples from the improved familiar feat), the familiar doesn't get that much of a bonus compared to say an ice mephit (if the celestial hawk only counts as a 1HD creature). Allowing abilities based on the masters character level would give abilities that seem (to me) to be more in line with the general power of the ice mephit.

 

[iwatt]

Allowing abilities based on the masters character level would give abilities that seem (to me) to be more in line with the general power of the ice mephit.

I agree with this as well.

Regarding celestial familiars, I have the following question. Are celestial familiars able to speak celestial? They have a higher than 3 int, but I don't have the books on me right now.