Celestials, Templates, and Half-Breeds

[Quasqueton]

Celestial qualities are listed as [from the MM listing of "celestials"] tongues, immunity to electricity and petrification, and +4 on saves against poison. Resistances to cold, acid, and fire vary among the "species".

Why isn't the celestial template based on this? Or why don't listed/named celestials scale as on the celestial template?

The celestial template applied to a creature gives smite evil. But it does not give tongues, immunity to anything, nor a bonus against poison. Resistances to acid, cold, and electricity varies by HD. Damage reduction also varies by HD. But the celestials listed by name in the MM do not follow this pattern. And surprisingly, a celestial creature is not an outsider. What? Why?

The half-celestial template gives natural armor +1, light at will, immunity to acid, cold, disease, and electricity, +4 save against poison, a total of +20 to ability scores, and a whole bunch of spells by level. A half-celestial is an outsider.

The aasimar gets light at will, resistance to acid, cold, and electricity, wisdom and charisma bonus, and +2 to spot and listen. And an aasimar is an outsider too.

A half-celestial has more and different and more-powerful abilities than a full celestial? Whereas a full celestial has resistance to acid, cold, and electricity, his half-blood child has full immunity to these energies. The half-celestial gets a total of +20 to his ability scores. Plus the child gets a whole range of powerful spells to sling that the parent doesn't have. The child is an outsider, but the parent is not? Why to all this?

And the great-grandson of the celestial gets wisdom and charisma bonuses, and spot and listen bonuses that the original ancestor does not have? And again, the decendent is an outsider where the original was not?


One of the wonderful things about 3rd edition is how creatures follow the internal rules between each other. For instance, an ogre is a large-sized giant. It follows the rules for a large creature of the type giant.

But celestials and fiends have no consistancy, and do not follow logically through their versions. A celestial differs from a celestial template. A half-celestial and an aasimar follows from neither, and don't relate to each other. Why?

I was considering a campaign idea with the PCs being all celestials or half-celestials, but now that I've really taken a close look at the templates, this all bugs me. Why are these templates so wonky?

This is so 1st and 2nd edition -- no consistancy, no logic.

Sorry to rant on the forum. I'm just really irked by this. ~shrug, sigh~

Quasqueton

 

[Psion]

Celestial qualities are listed as [from the MM listing of "celestials"] tongues, immunity to electricity and petrification, and +4 on saves against poison. Resistances to cold, acid, and fire vary among the "species".

Why isn't the celestial template based on this? Or why don't listed/named celestials scale as on the celestial template?

I don't think they are really equivalent, nor are they supposed to be. "Celestials" are a catch all category to include the powerful good outsider servant races, where the "celestial template" simply describes more or less natural inhabitants of the good outer planes.

I don't think the problem is that they aren't being consistent. The problem is that it is something of a poor naming convention.

 

[Voadam]

The celestial and fiendish template makes minor plane touched type creatures, not "Celestials" or "Demons." The celstial is lesser than a fully half-Celestial which is less powerful as a base creature than an actual Celestial (generally and before levels, etc.). An evil ranger with favored enemy celestial will not gain bonuses against a creature with the celestial template, just like a a ranger with FE demons will not gain a bonus against generally fiendish creatures.

 

[Quasqueton]

So how should these templates be named?

Celestial = outsider from upper planes (Archon = LG celestial, Guardinal = NG celestial, Eladrin = CG celestial)

Rename the celestial template to "planetouched"? They are not outsiders, and have only a passing relation with "true celestials".

Rename planetouched (aasimars) to "celestial descendants"? Even generations removed, they are still outsiders. But where does the light spell at will and the bonus to spot and listen come from?

Half-celestials become what name? It's not really a half celestial. It's more a mutant celestial. Where do all the spell-like abilities come from?

Quasqueton