Cerebramancer.....a word about duel caster class's

[Sir ThornCrest]

I am playing a character who was born naturally psionic, yet his parents forced him into a Wizards service very young (aggressive apprenticeship program!). He soon took up the Arcane practice however now his mind was split between the two.

Have many of you have gone the duel caster route? And what is the ultimate conclusion? How did you find it to work out, or did it?

I have to admit I was more than a little apprehensive to take the caster level sacrifice required to duel class. At the early to mid levels 3rd thru 8th I was significantly behind-sub par for the course/party. But I have really enjoyed the combination, as of late.

D&D has a duel prestige class for just about any combo, Wizard/cleric, wizard / psion, psion /cleric, wizard / psion mix in bard's & sorcerer’s and you have one big melting pot.

I am currently playing a 10th level Cerebramancer, casting as 7th Wizard and Manifesting as 7th Psion. I have a wide variety of spells and powers to use and I'm split with the feats about 50/50. I am the party’s arsenal. That is I have access to and can cast many spells/powers a day. The two classes seem to enhance/compliment one another with spell/power selection. Although it comes at a price, I have access to 4th level spells not 5th level. And my psi-chrystal and familiar are forever stuck as if I were 6th level. But I do have 4th level Psion and 4th level Wizard powers/spells, which more than makes up for the loss.

The DM ruled that since I was splitting my attention between Wizard and Psion, that he would randomly select every other power from Psion & I couldn’t specialize in any school of magic. The party (gaming senate) agreed that was fair...however now the parties 10th level Wizard and 10th level Cleric are both saying they would of gladly made the sacrifice to be a Theurgist or some other duel caster.

Again what’s your take on the duel caster?

Sit Thorncrest

 

[Shemeska]

Again what’s your take on the duel caster?

I wouldn't allow them in a game personally, as I find them too overpowered for my like. Honestly I saw their introduction as a bit of nostalgic pandering to folks' old 2e multiclassed cleric/wizards etc, which I look back on (never having played 2e) and find them as wonky as the 3e dual caster progressions. At least in my opinion its power creep.

 

[Voadam]

I like em.

I think they are balanced and the concept of melding different magical traditions is appealing.

 

[Brain]

I play a mystic theurge in one of the campaigns I'm in and I wouldn't call it overpowered. It kind of depends on the style of game you play.

Pros

• Versatility
• Sheer volume of spells
• Synergy between the two types

Cons

• Not enough actions in combat to do it all
• Lack of high level spells
• Multi-attribute dependency (not a problem for the wizard/psion)

Overall, I like my theurge and think it is balanced. I wouldn't do it in most campaigns though. I think the cleric and wizard might be jealous of the psionics more than the double type casting. If you were a cleric/wizard theurge, I doubt they would have the same stance, because they would see that they are better at what they do than you. (Especially at odd levels)

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I haven't seen any Mystic Theurge, True Necromancer, Cerebremancer or similar yet, so I cannot really comment on them being balanced. Before you get to take the PrC, you surely are behind with things, and even then it will take a while to catch up I think. As long as it is split evenly even after you're done with the PrC, it's OK I think (so I mean no "Wiz3/Clr7/MT 10 for 9th-level divine spells!)

The DM ruled that since I was splitting my attention between Wizard and Psion, that he would randomly select every other power from Psion & I couldn’t specialize in any school of magic. The party (gaming senate) agreed that was fair...however now the parties 10th level Wizard and 10th level Cleric are both saying they would of gladly made the sacrifice to be a Theurgist or some other duel caster.

IMO that's nonsense. Yes, you're splitting your attention. That's why you lag behind a spell/power level. But you're not a dabbler or wild talent, you actually go through with both parts. A fighter/rogue (another potent combination) gets to select his skills and feats, too, doesn't he?

And remember: you might be alright now, but you lagged behind quite a bit at the beginning, that's got to be worth something now. And you still lag behind 3 caster levels (or one and a half spell levels). I recently played a drow favoured soul, I know that lagging behind one level and a half can be a hit (we had a half-drow cleric in the party, too, and she got to have heal and harm long before I got to get these). And it's often the most powerful spells that decide the match for you.

 

[GlassJaw]

I played a Drd 3/Wiz 3/MT 10 and it was a lot of fun. He was a summoning specialist. The most powerful thing he did was use Augment Summoning + SNA + Animal Growth. Fun stuff.

(By the way, it's "dual" in this case )

 

[Kae'Yoss]

(By the way, it's "dual" in this case )

Maybe he wanted to know how you could get into the duelist PrC as a wizard, a combo which is obvious ;-)

 

[Sir ThornCrest]

dual you are absolutely correct....I type and post without reading half the time

When the party gets to say 15th level I will be casting at 12th/ manifesting at 12th, if party ever makes epic they will be 20th in one class and I will be 17/17th......I would take that over straight 20 everytime!

Maybe he wanted to know how you could get into the duelist PrC as a wizard, a combo which is obvious ;-)

 

[Kae'Yoss]

When the party gets to say 15th level I will be casting at 12th/ manifesting at 12th, if party ever makes epic they will be 20th in one class and I will be 17/17th......I would take that over straight 20 everytime!

At level 20, you'll be 15/15 (Wiz5/Psi5/Ce10). After that, the PrC only offers one advancement per level, like Mystic Theurge. So, that's 16/16 at 22, 17/17 at 24. At this point, a full-fledged caster would have Multispell or spell slots of 10th and higher level.

Sure, in the epic regions, this might get whacky, but that doesn't mean it won't work in the regular levels. Many things get whacky once you go epic.

 

[HellHound]

I've played Mystic Theurges, but not Cerebremancers.

MTs are woefully underpowered until around level 7 in the PrC. Even then they are often hurting. They DO, however, make awesome utility casters - a fine backup if you have another blastmage (ahem, psion kineticist) in the group, but hard-pressed to hold their own in a standard adventure.

Yes, at levels 8-10 in the class, they really ramp up in power, but then it slows down again at level 10 in the class (level 15 character), when they cease dual-advancing again. That's when the hard choice returns, which class to advance again.