Chain Shirt vs. Hide Armor

[KarinsDad]

So logically, a way of fixing the "Medium Armor Problem" would be to either increase the range of AC's (upping both Medium and Heavy Armor AC benefits) or inventing some greater penalty to wearing Heavy Armor.

I'd suggest increasing the armor benefit of Medium & Heavy Armors if it was me.
Let's see..... by +2 across the board would be a good place to start.

A combination of the armors as follows might work for you as well. You could have some slight weight/cost/max dex/arcane spell failure/check penalty differences between armors of the same AC. This basically puts 3 AC values in each of Light, Medium, and Heavy.

Padded +1
Leather +2
Studded Leather/Hide +3

Chain shirt/Scale mail +4
Breastplate +5
Chainmail +6

Splint mail/Banded mail +7
Half-plate +8
Full plate +9


As for movement, I use:

Light: 30/20
Medium: 25/17.5
Heavy: 20/15

in my game. 17.5 corresponds to 15 unless double moving where you would get 7 spaces instead of 6. This increases the utility of the "worthless medium armors".

 

[Spatzimaus]

Reasons to wear Medium Armor:

1> You have Mithral, so your BP counts as Light Armor. Same goes for Celestial armor.
2> You're a fighter-type who has a little DEX, and would rather keep the DEX AC than improve your Armor AC since you face a lot of Touch attacks or ethereal monsters. (counter: the DEX AC doesn't help when flatfooted/flanked)
3> When immersed in water you want to not die (those Swim checks are nasty in full plate).
4> Armor check penalties: not everyone wants them
5> You don't have a choice (i.e., Barbarian)
6> You found some rare ingredient (dragon scale, adamantine, etc) and don't have enough to make Full Plate

Is this enough? Maybe not. The bigger question is, if someone passes on Medium armor, is it because they went with Heavy or Light? I've seen more people go with a Chain Shirt than anything else.

 

[Wolf72]

it's all about the coin purse!

eeks so simple a question and so wordy replies?

what benefit does hide have over a chain shirt? 75gp ...


(other than that it, it bites royally ... when you can afford it, get a chain shirt)

 

[KarinsDad]

Is this enough? Maybe not. The bigger question is, if someone passes on Medium armor, is it because they went with Heavy or Light? I've seen more people go with a Chain Shirt than anything else.

I think were there is smoke, there is fire.

In our games, the percentages for characters who take armor over 2+ years have been something like:

Light and high Dex: 70%
Heavy and low Dex: 25%
Medium: 5%, usually as a transition to heavy at lower levels or to just sleep in at night instead of heavy

In 1E and 2E, the higher the armor the better. In 3E, the lighter the armor the better almost seems to be the rule.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Not arguing that the problem doesn't exist, what I meant was, most of the responses have been "why take Medium when you can take Heavy?" while to me the problem is "why take Medium when you can take Light?"

With all the ways of pumping up your DEX, or of getting a magical Armor bonus (Mage Armor, Inertial Armor, Bracers of Armor), too many people go entirely without armor.

Fixes that I like:
1> The Max DEX bonuses on armors cap too low; people who have a good DEX will go Light or no armor. Make Medium armors more desirable by giving them as high a DEX cap as Light armors, but with higher ACs to compensate for their speed hit.
1a> Make a new Armor enchantment, "Flexibility" that adds 2 to the Max DEX and 2 to Armor Check Penalty, for a +1 cost, but can't be put on Heavy armor (can't bend a plate).
2> Clerics shouldn't get Heavy Armor Proficiency. I mean really, a breastplate would be enough for the "armored priest" image. Having more classes that need Medium armor helps a little.
3> Have armors give a Damage Reduction based on their Hardness. Light armors or Small Shields give no DR. Medium armors and Large Shields give DR of (Hardness/10)/-, Heavy armors give DR of (Hardness/5)/-
(Reference: Steel is Hardness 10, the heavy stuff like Adamantine goes up to 30)
To compensate for this, let the Masterwork bonus (+1 attack) stack with magical enhancement, and there are varying levels of Masterwork with progressively higher DCs.
3a> You could do something similar for elemental resistances. I mean really, if a Fireball hits a guy in plate armor, he probably won't be hurt as badly as a naked mage. It might not be much, but it'd add up.

Basically, give people a reason to wear the heavy stuff again, something beyond just the straight AC.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I've been working on rules for new amror since i didn't like the normal armor for 3 reasons, 1 medium armor sucked, 2 in each armor category thier was a clear winner, and 3 i didn't like max dex as a penalty.

Here is what I've come up with but haven't play tested yet. i'm going to try it in my next campaign.

extra light armor AC2 dex penalty none, armor check penalty none, movement penalty none
light armor AC 4, dex penalty 25%of bonus, armor check -2, movement penalty none
medium armor AC 6, dex penalty 50% of bonus, armor check -4, movement penalty -10%(5' minimum loss)
heavy armor AC8, dex penatly 75% of bonus, armor check -6, movement penatly -25%(5' minimium loss)

I then listed waht each category included. Can't remember them all here at work, but it was something like 1/2 suits of leather, passed armor extra light, full suit of leather, studded leather partial suits, chain shirts, partial hide light, full suit studded, full suit hide, chain mail, breastplate, scale mail medium, plate armor, full plate heavy.

I'm still tossing up whether full plate should get some special benefit or not. Historical accuracy is all well and good, but I prefer to give my palyers a good list of legitimite options so they aren't penalized for taking what they like.

 

[Krafen]

I like your scaling penalties idea.

 

[Wolf72]

did someone say alternative armor ideas? (well more like: medium armor really sucks!)

[Wolf72, Trentonjoe, & DrowDude stuff]

Medium armor gets a flat +2 to AC, and 50gp increase ... all medium armor is now better than, AC-wise, than light armor. If you have a high dex and like to be spring-attack-boy, go light armor. Your move is still low, but at least your armor means something.

Heavy armor gets a flat +2 to AC and a very low DR (DR 1). all Heavy armors have a better AC rating than medium armors, they also give a minor Damage reduction rating. The price increases by 200gp. Your movement is still abyssmal, but at least you're more tank like.

you have to get used to higher AC's for anything that uses armor. If you're a dex person stick with light armor, the mobility will come in real handy if you need to get away ...

anyway to make it a little easier to visualize and critique here's a table I did in word (it might come out a little wonky if you just open it, saving it would work better).

some prices have been changed (lamellar and chainmail were the same price but lamellar was better, so its price was increased. there are also some armors from Elric d20).

 

[reapersaurus]

I like your Armor table there!

Good ideas.

Any way to get a description or pictures of the new armors in it?

And what does the * next to some of the armors mean?

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

I don't see a paticular reason to change anything. Not everything has to be perfectly balanced twards game play. You could just as easily make it so that each point of AC gives you 5% spell failure, -1 check penalty, and subtracts 1 from max DEX, starting with a max of +10. A generic system would be geared twards play, but not what the game is.

Some armors are just not as good as others. Some were made at earlier points in history, thus not as advanced. They are included as options. Some are used by certain societies, even if other types were better. Look at economics, is a ruler going to provide his troops with the best? No, they get the cheapest/most easily made/easiest to maintain. Hide does all of this and gives a decent AC boost as well, uping the soildier's survivability. Its cheap, could be repaired with ease, won't rust, is better insulation, ect. Thats why shields were so popular, cheap and effective.

Not to mention mithral makes Med armor alot more attractive, and it's reasonably priced. Then there are those with low STR, who can't wear heavy without going 10' anyway. Or those who don't have the best DEX, but want more than a +4 AC, ect.

The only thing I migh change would be to give small and large shields a +1 AC boost, to put a little more variety there. It's a big jump from a large to a tower.