Chain Shirt vs. Hide Armor

[Mistwell]

And don't forget the magic variations on the medium armors, like Rhino Hide (my personal favorite).

 

[Wolf72]

[edit: added in some stuff that wasn't on the download]

I like your Armor table there!

Good ideas.

Any way to get a description or pictures of the new armors in it?

And what does the * next to some of the armors mean?

um, I have 0 ranks in fluff ... but a * means it is a natural armor. Theres 4 pages of this document, but the other 3 are normal armor tables.

oh wait! new armors:

RingMail, is my conversion of the 1e/2e armor. Basically a lesser form of chainmail. not that it has only 10% ASF, so for munchy people, you could make it out of mithral.

Sea Leather, Leather-Wood: from Dragonlords of Melnibone (elric d20). High plate is melnibonean plate (-2 from the AC, and no DR and that's melnibonean plate) ... (you need to check out that book)

Field plate is what full plate was, and full plate is the same thing except that it has a DR 2 v DR 1 that the other heavy armors get.

Improved Mail is by DrowDude, and iirc its a suit of heavy chainmail or lamellar.

as for pictures ... um, 2e arms and equipment guide ... and again elric d20.

[leather scale, ashigaru, lamellar, partial armor, great armor, dhenuka, bone, and cord are in OA]

***********edit*******************************
Melnibonean Plate is always MW and only available through Melnibonean craftsman. It can also be used to represent any Ancient/High form of armor (Valheru, Solamnic ...). Alternate name: High Plate. ... of this incredibly rare armor, no known suits are made of mithral, adamantine, or any other special material. High Plate incurs double the price modifier if it is made out of special materials (+20k adamantine, +18k mithral).

Sea leather only has a –2 to swim checks (instead of –3) because of weight, it resists saturation with water.
Leather-Wood armor soaks up water readily, it has a –6 to swim checks instead of a –4.
***********edit********************************

 

[Ravellion]

This is how neverwinter nights did it:

http://nwn.bioware.com/players/armor.html

As you can see, they changed chain shirt to medium armor, and reduced the effectiveness of studded leather. Half plate also has a +1 Max Dex, and Hide is light armour. Armour check penalties also stay the same for MW/Magical versions, reducing the appeal of Chain Shirt considerably.

Rav

 

[Vaxalon]

To my mind, some armors just aren't for PC's.

Yes, they can pump dex. Cat's Grace, Bull's Strength, and Endurance spells are de rigeur.

To me, it just gives me more options. What do the PC's do when they find a nifty suit of +2 armor of heavy fortification... but it's chainmail? Do they ditch it because it'll slow them down, or do they sell it for half, or do they keep it around for when they're expecting lots of sneak attacks?

 

[Shard O'Glase]

don't know what my pcs would do, but what I'd do if I were playing. I'd sell it, buy enough scrolls of limited wish(fortification requisite I think) and make a light armor version, having one of the fighter types caugh of the spare cash needed to cover expenses.

 

[KarinsDad]

This is how neverwinter nights did it:

Yes, I like that a LOT.

Now, if I could only convince all of my Chain Shirt players to allow me to switch over to it...

PS. What's up with 19.4 pounds for the Tower Shield? It looks like that create a formula for this stuff and then forgot to round off the weight of the Tower Shield or something.

 

[Thanee]

I also think it's kinda bad, that apart from style issues, there are really only two good armors... Chain Shirt and Full Plate Mail.

Breastplate is also useful, but not as good as either of the two.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Vaxalon]

Lots of rogues wear masterwork studded.

Breastplate makes a good mobility compromise, don't sell it short.

 

[KarinsDad]

I also think it's kinda bad, that apart from style issues, there are really only two good armors... Chain Shirt and Full Plate Mail.

This might be an unsolvable problem.

You have 12 armors. You have enough money by 2nd or 3rd level to buy whichever one you wish.

The question comes down to:

How much variability can you put into armor such that each suit has some redeeming quality or advantage over most other suits in some area (or a fair advantage in multiple areas)?

Currently, Chain Shirt and Full Plate Mail have those redeeming qualities.

Chain Shirt at the top of the Light Armor list equates to moderate AC, few penalties, and best movement rate.

Full Plate Mail at the top of the Heavy Armor list equates to best AC, heavy penalties, and movement as good as the lightest Medium armor.

But, there doesn't seem to be other considerations that might make other armors "redeeming".

For example, if they would have given a Breastplate a very low armor check penalty like -1 instead of -4, you could wear it and pick locks at the same time. Why should a Breastplate decrease your chance to pick a lock anyway?

So, unless you come up with a system where each armor has some advantage over other armors, you will never have a system where the most appropriate armor is not dictated in the mind of the players by either cost, the availability of a specific set of magic armor, or AC vs. maneuverability.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Like some others here, I see no problem with the fact that some armors are better than others. If I'm running a campaign, it's a matter of what I want it to look like. Does the knightly class wear fullplate? (Probably). If so, it makes sense that full-plate is the all around best choice for a (non-dex based) fighter who can afford it.

Do I want characters who plan on being sneaky/mobile wearing full knightly armors? (No.) In that case, I make other armors attractive to them. (Hence the chain shirt/masterwork studded leather preference among dex-based characters).

Is that a problem? I don't think so. Historically, when plate armors became available the knightly class abandoned scale mail. When full plate armors became available, they abandoned the chain and plate armors. Why should PCs not do the same?

In any event, I don't think it's accurate to say that PCs don't use medium armors. Mithral medium armors are what most dex-based fighters aspire to own. Medium armors are also a very good compromise for barbarians who want to keep their ability to move but aren't satisfied with the protection offered by a chain shirt. Medium armors are also the armor of choice for starting fighters, clerics, and paladins (there's a reason that scale mail seems to be the Iconic Armor) who can't afford fullplate. That seems like enough of a niche to justify the existance of medium armor. In the same way, splint mail's niche is "Fighters, Clerics, and Paladins who don't have a dex bonus and can't afford Full Plate." Not necessarily a bad niche to have.

If you want to make medium armors more attractive to characters, I would suggest either:
A. Introduce a medium armor with +6 Armor bonus, +3 max dex bonus, and -5 Armor check penalty. Call it Reinforced Chain or a Curiass.
B. Flip the heavy and medium armor movement penalties. Medium armor gets 30' move but may only run x3. Heavy armor gets 20' move and may only run x3.

I suspect that either one of these changes would see barbarians of all levels and even some dex based fighters (especially with change A) flocking to medium armor.