Challenging large parties

[Dextolen]

It's pretty well understood that the EL system is based upon parties of 4 adventurers. My gaming group is swelling to 7-8 players very soon. How do I keep it challenging?

Increase the number of opponents in each encounter?

Advance the opponents HD/CR?

I'd really like to know about any 'official' word on this from one of the designers, etc - if you have ever happened to catch it.

 

[Ryan Koppenhaver]

Here's what SKR has to say on the matter:

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/handlinglargeparties.html

The short version is "More opponents, rather than tougher opponents."

 

[S'mon]

Sean explains sensibly why it's better to double the number of opponents rather than use CR+2 critters. That said, using 2nd level Warrior goblins instead of the normal 1st level kind probably wouldn't break anything. The DMG recommends against using more than 12 opponents in a battle, but with miniatures I had no problems in a recent battle where the PCs (around 5th-6th level) faced 18 goblins, 18 hobgoblins, & 4 ogres. Probably best not to have battles with hundreds of orcs a la 1e Monster Manual, though, unless your party has several fireballers!

 

[nopantsyet]

Determine average party level by adding up all character levels and dividing by four -- not by number of characters in the party. Use that when determining what CRs to bring against them. This makes a huge difference in balance even with just one more character. If you have an eighth level party of five, that's 40 party levels. Divided by five is ten, divided by four is ten.

When balancing encounters where NPCs are fighting with the party, be sure include their levels in this calculation. The difference gets bigger the more characters you have, of course. There was a recent posting about a guy with 18 players, average level 9, and he couldn't figure out how they easily overcame a CR25 opponent. Here's how: 9*18=162 levels. 162/4=40.5!!!! That's over 30 levels difference in average party level!!!

Also use this for calculating experience or you'll find your characters defeat everything easily and advance in levels very fast.

Now, it seems to me that the rules have to say this somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it. They appear to only address the four-character party scenario.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

You really have to both increase the number of opponents and up their power level.

Four 4th level PCs may find four CR2 creatures a fair challenge. Eight 4th level PCs will eat eight CR2 creatures for breakfast.

More PCs give the players the advantage of:
--better control of the battlefield
--good protection for the spellcasters, allowing them to load up with offensive spells
--more opportunities for a severely wounded characters to retreat for a round or two to heal up
--more specialized characters and opportunities to use their abilities well, e.g. the superarmored grunt fights defensively while the archer lines up the arrow shots
--the DM's brainpower is divided among more critters so fewer enemy moves are likely to be tactically clever

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

That link has some good points in there.

I think the advice to boost up creatures. It keeps the PCs guessing and the DM does not have to play the better creatures any differently.