Challenging without killing

[Electric]

Three of my players' characters died recently, and they've created new ones which are pretty different in style than the old ones. It seems like it's going to be harder to create scenarios for these new characters that can challenge them without being far too dangerous, so I though I'd ask for some tips.

The old batch of characters was the classic Fighter, Wizard, Rogue, Cleric party, and was pretty defensive. AC ranged from 18 to 20 plus the wizard was an abjurer and focused on shielding them even further when they needed it. They did minimal damage but were hard to hit. I think I was okay at giving them challenges that were tough but not deadly (two of them died from unfortunate critical hits, and the other from being seperated from the cleric)

The new batch retained the Cleric (the one that survived from the old group) and has added a Barbarian, Bard, and Ranger. Compared to their previous characters, the new three are far easier to hit (AC now ranges from 15 to 17, and with no wizard to boost it) but dish out far more damage. The barbarian alone deals 2d4 + 7, and that's without rage.

I guess it's just the first time I'm dealing with players who aren't acting defensive. There's probably a whole different style of how to keep ahead of them, and I need to figure it out. Any advice on doing that?

 

[Dingo333]

well, if you wanna keep a challenge, follow this:

The harder they hit: the more HP monsters should have

The lower their AC: the lower damage OR chance to hit should be

That is probably the best policy to follow, low HD, low dmg, high HP, moderate to hit

You can also try combat manuvers against them (and encourage your players to use them, barbarian could become a tripping machine if that is a scythe he has)

You still have a healer, and a bard can be just as good at buffing as the wizard and gains healing as well so do not be too afraid to pound on them, aslong as they can get some time to heal

 

[paradox42]

Question's difficult-to-impossible to answer without knowing one critical variable: what level are these characters?

AC that low suggests very low level, but it's not certain.

 

[SnowleopardVK]

Question's difficult-to-impossible to answer without knowing one critical variable: what level are these characters?

AC that low suggests very low level, but it's not certain.

We're 2nd level (I should know, I'm playing the ranger XD)

 

[Dragonwriter]

Stronger/bigger monsters =/= challenge. If the monsters can hit the party, there's danger. If the monsters can get hit and killed by the party, there's a chance of success. That's the way it has been for a long time and continues to be.

If you want to challenge them, send a big group of weak enemies. Or give the enemies a good tactical position. At level 2, they party is vulnerable to group attacks, small spells like Grease or Entangle, or just simple terrain. Enemy archers/javelin-throwers on top of a steep ridge, for example, have the potential to be quite challenging, particularly if there is a group of heavily-armored guards protecting them.

And challenges don't have to be combat-related. Maybe they have to deliver something to some place within a certain amount of time and there are things slowing them down. Or there's some vague threat to one or more of them and they have to figure out what's happening and causing it. Illusions can work wonders for that sort of thing.

Of course, some of these answers may not work for you and your group. Just don't be afraid to test things out. You could even copy the character sheets and try running a test combat on your own, if you want to take that extra step. It could help give you some extra insight on the way the encounter may flow.

 

[HalfordAskold]

They are probably just running nervous after the recent party deaths. Throw a few more monsters at them than normal. Or if they are heading out for the same adventure, don't worry; As DM you also get to have some fun; think what you would find interesting if you were playing those classes. I mean the Bard could find some interesting music that does interesting things; have the barbarian find some orphan (humanoid or animal) and that follows him along. And the ranger...same thing. Some animal or something. Now they have things they have to be careful to protect also. I like challenges. Sometimes just upping hit dice isn't the way.

 

[Herobizkit]

You could completely take the rug out from under them and change the whole style of your game.

Throw them into a country/kingdom that is modeled after (romantic?) ancient Japan:

- only the ruler's elite soldiers may carry weapons.
- weapons are forbidden to commoners, forcing them to adapt tools into 'weapons'
- it is honorable and respectable to subdue human(oid) opponents rather than kill
- persons who kill gain a reputation and are shunned

Encourage them to use non-lethal damage and reward those players with a decent CMB who use it to do 'cool stuff'.

Basically, add in some WuXia style to your game and it goes from hack/slash/loot to something... more...