Change self and disguises: mechanics?

[LazarusLong42]

So, I was able to convince my DM to allow my Disguise-oriented Bard to take change self as a 1st-level spell. Yeah, I have an easygoing DM. The question, though, is this:

What's the mechanic for creating a disguise using change self?

(1) Spend d3 x 10 minutes creating the disguise, roll a Disguise check (DM roll), cast change self, add 10 to the Disguise check.

(2) Cast change self. The spell allows you to create the disguise without resorting to a manual disguise; you add your disguise check because it measures not only how well you can create a manual disguise, but how well you can imagine a well-done disguise using the spell.

Is there a clear-cut rule for this? If not, are there opinions?

LL

 

[Destil]

So, I was able to convince my DM to allow my Disguise-oriented Bard to take change self as a 1st-level spell. Yeah, I have an easygoing DM. The question, though, is this:

What's the mechanic for creating a disguise using change self?

(1) Spend d3 x 10 minutes creating the disguise, roll a Disguise check (DM roll), cast change self, add 10 to the Disguise check.

(2) Cast change self. The spell allows you to create the disguise without resorting to a manual disguise; you add your disguise check because it measures not only how well you can create a manual disguise, but how well you can imagine a well-done disguise using the spell.

Is there a clear-cut rule for this? If not, are there opinions?

LL

The second one makes the most sense to me, though I don't think I've ever seen the rules.

 

[Spatzimaus]

The rules aren't really clear. Personally, I'd say "Both", but I'm nice that way.

The question really is, does Change Self have an effect that allows a Disguise check, or is it a spell that gives a bonus to normal Disguise checks? Some spells do the first (Fabricate), others clearly do the second (Chameleon).

Since Change Self is an Illusion, NOT a transmutation, it can't be only a normal bonus to the Disguise check, since it's not actually a part of a physical disguise. There's no preparation needed for the spell; you cast it, illusion drops into place, done. Now, the DM might require a little prep time while you plan out your disguise, but it wouldn't be anything like the 10-30 minutes a physical disguise takes. You wouldn't get to use the bonus from a masterwork disguise kit, though, and I usually don't allow Take 10 or 20 in these sorts of checks.

On the other hand, what if you wanted to combine this with a physical disguise (which isn't subject to disbelief saves)? So, you find a good outfit, put on some basic makeup, and then use the illusion to finish. In that case, would it be like a normal Disguise check, with a +10 bonus against anyone who fails the save?

So, that's why I said both. Casting Change Self by itself should allow an instant Disguise check with a +10 bonus (but no bonus from masterwork disguise kits, and you can't Take 10/20), OR allow you a more generic +10 bonus to normal Disguise opposed rolls if the other guy failed the save.

But, that's just my opinion. If you have to choose, I'd go with option 2.

 

[Menno]

I'd go with option 2

What happens by the way when someone sees though a disguise? Does he recognize the original person, or does he only sees that the disguise is incorrect.

 

[bret]

I would have to say both.

Consider the infiltrator that prepares a physical disguise (say of a half-elf when they are human) and then places a change self on top of that.

If they see through the illusion (not that hard, considering it is a first level spell), then the person should see the half-elf disguise. If they don't see through it, there should still be a bonus to the disguise because the physical disguise makes them closer to the illusion.

 

[Dash Dannigan]

Incidentally, it is not possible to just "see" through the illusion. They can only attempt a will save to notice the illsuion for what it is when the individual interacts with the illusion directly, such as touching the beard but finding none there, and so on.

A disguise that fails would highly arouse suspicions and without caution may eventually lead to a yelling out of "imposter" or the like and arrests, etc.

As far as the disguise check works, use the skill, roll the dice and add +10 for using the change self spell. I don't see any problems with this, all per the rules. *shrug*