changeling monk warshaper couldn't find the answer

[Zimri]

I am quite confused regarding the warshaper ability to add 1 size category to a natural attack when used in conjunction with a monks Improved Unarmed Strike ability. I know mileage will vary I am just looking for a general feel of opinions from all sides. IUS states that the strikes are considered both natural and manufactured, and I can see nothing "unnatural" about a changeling(shape shifted into a human for instance)'s fists/knees/head/feet

if this topic has already been hashed out ad infinitum please provide a link for my perusal

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I am quite confused regarding the warshaper ability to add 1 size category to a natural attack when used in conjunction with a monks Improved Unarmed Strike ability. I know mileage will vary I am just looking for a general feel of opinions from all sides. IUS states that the strikes are considered both natural and manufactured, and I can see nothing "unnatural" about a changeling(shape shifted into a human for instance)'s fists/knees/head/feet

if this topic has already been hashed out ad infinitum please provide a link for my perusal

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd look on the chart in the PHB and see what the Large monk's unarmed strike was for that level.

Oh, you mean "is it allowed?" Hrm.

That gets into the whole "Is Unarmed Strike a natural weapon?" thing pretty deeply. As I, personally, am in the "Yes it is" camp, I'd say yes, it's fine. Someone who's in the "The heck it isn't!" camp would likely say no.

Actually, I'd even encourage it...IIRC, that means you have to have taken a third level of Warshaper, which for most (shapeshifter) characters in my experience is a two-level class.

Brad

 

[Korak]

in my experience is a two-level class.

Your players don't like Fast Healing 2? It's a 4 level class.

As to the posters question... I don't like it. Monk's unarmed strikes are far more powerful and versatile than natural weapons. That class ability was balanced as something that would affect ONE attack per round, not up to 6 as a hasted monk of 15th or higher level gets. Even the bog standard item for enhancing monks attacks, the Amulet of Mighty fists is priced equivalent to 3 magic weapons of the same enhancement. It seems clear to me that, at least at the level of the core rulebooks, the designers understood how much more powerful the monk's unarmed strike could be compared to natural weapons. I would not allow it to apply. That monk could just grow some horns for a gore attack to throw in on the full attack... as long as she wasn't using flurry of blows, of course .

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

That gets into the whole "Is Unarmed Strike a natural weapon?" thing pretty deeply. As I, personally, am in the "Yes it is" camp, I'd say yes, it's fine. Someone who's in the "The heck it isn't!" camp would likely say no.

The Unarmed Attack/Strike & Natural Attack argument is one of the five most likely to blow up into a threadwar here, hopefully this won't happen here.

But I'm completely in the "it's a natural weapon already" camp. So sure, I'd say run with it. IMO I think the designers made a huge mistake when they made the unarmed/natural distinction. It should all just be natural weapons they just had a problem in breaking with game tradition to give everyone a natural weapon. Personally the Fast Healing 2 at lvl 4 is something not to skip unless you've found a more optimal ability progression to replace it with.

 

[ihaveaquestion]

"A monk's unarmed strikes can be treated as either manufactured or natural weapons when applying spells or effects that enhance either manufactured or natural weapons. For example, either a magic weapon spell or a magic fang spell can enhance a monk's unarmed attacks. "

ha ha i have not done this long, all i know is i read this on the Dnd site...dont hurt me..*cring* hope it helps someone

 

[RigaMortus2]

"A monk's unarmed strikes can be treated as either manufactured or natural weapons when applying spells or effects that enhance either manufactured or natural weapons. For example, either a magic weapon spell or a magic fang spell can enhance a monk's unarmed attacks. "

ha ha i have not done this long, all i know is i read this on the Dnd site...dont hurt me..*cring* hope it helps someone

IDHMBIFOMATM... Does the Warshaper ability specify that it affects "natural attacks" or "natural weapons"? The distinction is important.

 

[javcs]

Warshaper specifies natural weapons.

 

[Rhun]

Natural weapon.


I would allow it. Of course, I'm a lenient DM.