Level Up (A5E) Changes to Crit and auto-success

[UberAffe]

Well, if you have the proper rule, the newly minted recruit....

The problem is with critical fumbles, most tables don't have the proper rule.

That necessitates doing something more than just the nat 1 though. Whether it is a table lookup, math, or another die roll.

 

[DND_Reborn]

That necessitates doing something more than just the nat 1 though. Whether it is a table lookup, math, or another die roll.

True. And your point being...? What? People can't add another roll?

We do it. All the time. Not an issue. And because of it, the higher level character is less likely to critically fumble, even getting 4 times the number of attacks.

Considering how rarely 1's come up, it doesn't even take much time to implement.

 

[rules.mechanic]

Or allow the 4-attack fighter to "rescue" a fumble by missing their next attack

 

[DND_Reborn]

Or allow the 4-attack fighter to "rescue" a fumble by missing their next attack

Nice idea. Simple. Elegant. No extra rolls needed. And then he can only "fumble" if it is the last attack in the turn.

I'll note it and see what the group thinks. Kudos.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

True. And your point being...? What? People can't add another roll?

We do it. All the time. Not an issue. And because of it, the higher level character is less likely to critically fumble, even getting 4 times the number of attacks.

Considering how rarely 1's come up, it doesn't even take much time to implement.

Sure. Whatever works for your table. But at the end of the day you agree with @UberAffe, Others, and myself that simply using a "rolling a 1 give you a critical fumble" has problems as a simple rule to implement critical fumbles. This was the presented system, not whatever your table is using.

 

[CleverNickName]

I think the thing that people are tripping over is the word "fumble." It could be anything, literally anything you can imagine, but it sounds like some of you immediately think "your character slips on a banana peel while a laugh-track plays from the audience" and stop.

Why would you settle for such a narrow scope of "woops" in your game? It can be so much more. It should be so much more.

Imagine ancestry or class features that only trigger on a fumble. (The halfling already does this to a degree.)
Imagine magical effects and items that trigger on a fumble.
Imagine a class feature that lets you spend your reaction to reroll a fumble. (Now it's no longer a punishment, but a boon for crit-fishers.)
Imagine the BBEG losing its lair action. Imagine the dragon automatically missing its Recharge on its next breath weapon check. Imagine the beholder losing its anti-magic field until the end of its next turn. Imagine more than a banana peel.

 

[CleverNickName]

Consider this....

Who is more likely to critical fumble in any given combat....in a narrative sense? A newly minted recruit (1st level fighter) or a paragon of warriors (20th level fighter)?

Who is more likely to critical fumble in any given combat...in a mathematical sense? A newly minted recruit (who has a single 5% chance to fumble each round) or a paragon of warriors (Who has four 5% chances to fumble each round)?

Multiple attack rolls per turn are a separate issue altogether. I'd rather add dice of damage instead of additional attacks, so that you hit harder as you gain experience. But I digress.

Each time you swing a sword, one of three things will happen; I'm only suggesting there be a fourth. The odds of hitting or missing will change based on your character's experience--but the odds of a critical hit never change no matter how many times you swing that sword per turn, or per battle, or per day.

 

[aco175]

I recall 2e we played with a crit hit/fumble chart and it was ok and slapstick fun, but we ended up not using it after a while. In 3e I remember having a ctit hit get another attack and a crit miss skipping the next attack. It was ok when we remembered to skip the next attack and it eventually faded as well.

I like the simply 5e system and find it to be fine for the mechanic that it is. If anything I could see adding a few simple options. Something like getting advantage on another attack later or getting another attack- but this would just do another die damage like a crit. Maybe get to shoot a cantrip or such. I could see times where the bad guy is easy to kill or almost dead and the PC get a crit and would like to get a chip to use on another round in the same encounter.

 

[Lanefan]

Hmm... I'm not sure I like the whole "beat their AC by X amount" thing add it bring more math into it (not an issue for me, personally, but I know a LOT of players who would have problems with it...).

Player doesn't have to worry about it - leave the math to the DM.

 

[Lanefan]

But, I'd rather not have them. It is one thing if you want a nat 20 to always succeed and a nat 1 to always fail for attacks, ability checks, and/or saves. But critical hits also open up people to critical fumbles, critical saves and ability checks, etc.

Damn right, and IMO those are all things the game should have baked right in.