Changing Counterspelling to make it a more viable, or at least more common, action

[MerakSpielman]

Counterspelling, as described in the PHB, is rarely useful. Who's going to bother readying an action to counterspell, when they don't even know what spell is going to be cast? If they don't have the same spell prepared (or one of a handful of specific "opposite" spells) it won't work. Even if they do have the appropriate spell prepared, it's still not a sure thing.

So why bother with going through all that trouble? You obviously have spells left (or you wouldn't be able to even consider counterspelling) so why not just cast on your action? You're giving up a sure-fire action for a low-probablility action.

Here are my proposed house rules:

Option one: Spells can be counterspelled with any spell of the same school and of the same level.

Option two: Spell can be counterspelled with any spell of the same level, however, if the spell used is of the same school it provides a +2 bonus to the roll.

Option three: Either of the above options, except the spell used can be of the same level or of a higher level than the spell to be countered. This combined with option two could lead to a huge increase in counterspelling, since any spell could be countered by any spell of the same or higher level.

 

[RangerWickett]

In Elements of Magic, we turned it into a skill, which costs MP (or spell slots) to use. The better you are at the skill, the better an option counterspelling is.

Also, things become a lot better with counterspelling if you introduce the Reactive Counterspell feat, or as we call it in EOM, dispel specialist.

Reactive Counterspell
Prerequisite: Improved Initiative
Benefit: You can attempt to counter a spell as a reaction, even if it is not your turn and you have not readied an action. If you do this, you give up your action in the next round. You effectively jump ahead in initiative for a moment, then resume your normal initiative on the next turn.

 

[JimAde]

This is all good stuff. MerakSpielman: I believe the Improved Counterspell feat does almost exactly what you describe. It allows you to use any spell of the same school and equal or higher level as a counter. If you effectively give this feat to everyone, would you then give Rangerwickett's Reactive Counterspell feat to those who have already taken the Improved Counterspell feat?

RangerWickett: How does this work in play?
Example 1: I'm a mage facing off against another. He wins initiative and casts Magic Missile. I use my Reactive Counterspell feat and counter it. Next round he casts it again. Can I counter again, or am I out of luck until my next action?

Example 2: I face off against 2 mages. The first wins initiative, I go next, and the other bad guy goes last. The first casts Magic Missile and I counter as above. After my initiative (on which I do nothing of course) the second bad guy casts. Can I counter?

 

[MerakSpielman]

This is all good stuff. MerakSpielman: I believe the Improved Counterspell feat does almost exactly what you describe. It allows you to use any spell of the same school and equal or higher level as a counter. If you effectively give this feat to everyone, would you then give Rangerwickett's Reactive Counterspell feat to those who have already taken the Improved Counterspell feat?

This sounds like a good idea!

 

[RangerWickett]

RangerWickett: How does this work in play?
Example 1: I'm a mage facing off against another. He wins initiative and casts Magic Missile. I use my Reactive Counterspell feat and counter it. Next round he casts it again. Can I counter again, or am I out of luck until my next action?

Well, I forgot to include it, but you can't use the reactive counterspell when you're flat-footed, so that first round, he can get his spell off.

But let's say you win initiative. You cast magic missile at him. Then he casts magic missile, and you reactively counterspell it, giving up your action in round 2.

Round 2 starts, you can do nothing. Your opponent tries to fireball you. You can give up your action in round 3 to try to counterspell it.

Reactive counterspell is useful in that you can try to counter round after round, and if they don't cast a spell you can still be aggressive as normal. It's not foolproof, though, since you don't have a 100% chance to counter a spell.

Example 2: I face off against 2 mages. The first wins initiative, I go next, and the other bad guy goes last. The first casts Magic Missile and I counter as above. After my initiative (on which I do nothing of course) the second bad guy casts. Can I counter?

Again, you can't reactive counter if flat-footed. And you can't counter if you don't have an action next round. If you reactive counterspell once, you're out of luck for another round.

 

[JimAde]

I should have been more clear. Assume that when I say "round 1" it's actually in an ongoing combat and nobody is flat-footed.

It sounds like you are saying I might be able to counterspell twice in the same round. In my second example, assuming I'm not flat-footed, I could give up my action in the current round to counterspell the first guy, and my action in the following round to counterspell the second. Is that true?

I'm nit-picking this because it sounds like a great idea but I'm always leery of anything that lets people act out of turn.

 

[Eltern]

Personally I think this is a great idea. Counterspelling is ONLY viable if you have a feat for it, which indicates to me that it's a worthless mechanic as is. I really thought they would have fixed this in 3.5 :\

Here's my thought:
Counterspelling still requires the "prep," but is effective with any spell of equal or higher level, and gets a +2 if of the same school. You can now effectively shut down your enemy mage, but have to shut yourself down, too. I'd like some Bluff mechanism so the enemy mage does not know that you're prepped to counterspell, maybe.

The feat Improved Counterspell allows you to blow your next turn to counter a spell, no prep, but it must be of the same school. No blowing two turns in one round, ex:

I go
Enemy 1 goes, I counter
Enemy 2 goes, I cannot counter

Next round: I don't have an action
Enemy 1 goes, I could counter
Enemy 2 goes, I could counter, proved I didn't already counter enemy 1

 

[Argus Decimus Mokira]

I'm loving option two. Option three is a bit much. I would eliminate the Improved Counterspell feat with any of these options.

Thanks
-Matt

Edited because my question made no sense after re-reading the thread