Changing Intimidate

[TracerBullet42]

I posted this earlier in the house rules forum, but it's not getting any attention, so here it is again:
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I'm not a big fan of the rules for intimidate, and one of the players in a new campaign I'm running is planning to make use of the skill. I'm considering the following changes: (clipped from an email)

For the most part, we will treat the Intimidate skill as written, but with the following exceptions:

-when using the "demoralize opponent" tactic in combat, on a successful check the opponent will remained "shaken" until he leaves your threatened area. He will also be given a new check each round to resist. The effect will be that he can step back to avoid the penalty, but then he's not in a range to attack back at you, or he can stand and fight, but will continue to be at a penalty. I think that holds true to the idea of what intimidate ought to be able to do in combat. And this will just be a test run...if it proves to be a problem, we will switch back to the rules as written.

Additionally, I'd be willing to throw out a feat idea for you. It'll look a little something like this:

Improved Demoralize
Prerequisites: Str 13, Cha 13, 6 ranks in Intimidate
Effect: You may make an Intimidate check to demoralize a foe as part of a move action.
Normal: Demoralizing an opponent is a standard action.

I hesitate to make it a "free" action so that you can't intimidate and full-attack in the same round. However, making it part of a move action means that you could move, intimidate, and attack in the same round. It's like drawing a weapon. It's a move action by itself, but you can do it as part of a move action for free. Make sense?

And putting a 6 rank prerequisite on it keeps it out of the reach of 1st and 2nd level characters, which seems appropriate. While you don't qualify for the feat right now, it's soon within reach.

What do you think?

 

[SiderisAnon]

What do you think?

I believe that your re-write of Intimidation is an interesting one, but there is one point that I am uncertain on, which could really change how effective the use is for combat. If an opponent steps back, do they remain Intimidated? Could an opponent simply move away, catch his breath, and then move back up and so force you to use your Intimidation again if you want to keep the effect going. If that is the case, I am unsure of how much use it will really get in combat. The only time that would be really useful is against single big, bad opponents where the character can keep closing with them and keep them intimidated.

Looking at it from a purely numbers standpoint, I do not think that a character I created would use the skill as written. For weak monsters, they're pretty much going to fail and keep failing to resist. However, they probably don't need to be intimidated. For tough monsters, they're going to have a high chance of not being intimidated and they're going to keep that high chance every round as they try to resist.

Once you have the feat to make it part of a Move-action, I think it becomes much more useful. You can move up on someone, scaring them as you approach, and then gain the benefits. I can definitely see this from a cinematic standpoint with the warrior charging up, shouting their battle cry, and making their foes cringe.

However, once you can make multiple attacks, I think the Intimidate-as-Move will only get used when you're closing with someone anyway. It will then be an extra part of movement, that probably will never get used in a fight unless the extra attacks simply have no chance of hitting the monster's AC and so you might as well try for shaken.


For action and how it would look, I really like it. It would be a neat and fun effect. For numbers and its value compared to other warrior abilities, I think it might be a bit sub-optimal. So, it all boils down to if you were looking for mood or crunch to be more important.

 

[TracerBullet42]

For action and how it would look, I really like it. It would be a neat and fun effect. For numbers and its value compared to other warrior abilities, I think it might be a bit sub-optimal. So, it all boils down to if you were looking for mood or crunch to be more important.

Ideally, I want both mood and crunch. You've made some good points.

I think that I want to keep it so that the opponent can move back to avoid the effects of the intimidate. If they're going to be at a penalty no matter what, why would they move back at all. I think it gives an option to either stay and fight (albeit at a penalty) or to move away and regain a chance to resist. The idea is that you would be able to intimidate your enemies into backing off, and maybe end things without a fight at times.

It's true that the opponent could just step back, catch his breath, and then step up again, but that has then used up most of his actions. Perhaps if we gave it a 10' range to the intimidate effect, so that he's got to move more than 5' away and can't just step right back in...unintimidated. But then the PC would get a free AoO.

I don't know...I feel like it's close to a good adjustment to intimidate, but not quite there yet. Any ideas on how to perfect it?

 

[Jolly Giant]

I think that I want to keep it so that the opponent can move back to avoid the effects of the intimidate. If they're going to be at a penalty no matter what, why would they move back at all. I think it gives an option to either stay and fight (albeit at a penalty) or to move away and regain a chance to resist. The idea is that you would be able to intimidate your enemies into backing off, and maybe end things without a fight at times.

Here's a freebee from Vikings D20: It's a feat I call Enduring Demoralisation. It is pretty close to your feat, except in my version the 'intimidatee' remains intimidated as long as he is threatened by the 'intimidator', and for one round thereafter. During that one extra round, the original intimidator can move after him and attempt to maintain the demoralisation with a new intimidate check; this one as a free action.

ANother Vikings feat is Battle Cry. This essentially lets you make an intimidate check as part of a charge. You can only intimidate the opponent you're charging, of course.

I never much liked the Intimidate skill as written either, you see. :\ And since I've tried to enhance the importance of skills under the Vikings rules, I've included a number of feats, spells and runes that makes Intimidate more 'user friendly'.