D&D 4E Changing the 4e save mechanism.

I'd like for the chance of success for a very capable character (strong, nimble or just plain stubborn) to be around 75%, with average characters in the 50-60% range and weak and clumsy characters at 25 to 35%. Any thoughts or analysis?

I would add a save for the option to stay on your feet rather than be knocked prone. I don't know why the idea of wanting to stay upright, even if it means being shoved away, is so crushed in 4E? How is the constant knocked prone attack better than the 3.0 trip monkey problem that had a lot of fights looking a lot more like slapstick humor than a battle?
 

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I would add a save for the option to stay on your feet rather than be knocked prone. I don't know why the idea of wanting to stay upright, even if it means being shoved away, is so crushed in 4E? How is the constant knocked prone attack better than the 3.0 trip monkey problem that had a lot of fights looking a lot more like slapstick humor than a battle?

I agree - I've already got the houserule that if you are standing up and there is something appropriate to grab onto, then the save against the effect lets you grab on and stay upright.

For slapstick humour in a battle, I dread to think what the warlord powers Knock them down and Beat them into the ground will look like!

Cheers
 

Although a huge 4e fan, I am still bothered by the 4e save mechanism. The flip-a-coin approach just feels wrong to me. I realize it is simple and smooth, but I have been thinking if there was an easy way to replace it. This is what I came up with.

Example: a wizard +8 to hit with his spells casts sleep on a Bugbear Strangler which has a Will defence of 16.

Normal play: The wizard rolls to hit, and if hit the Bugbear is slowed. Next round, the bugbear rolls a save, and on 1-9, he falls asleep.

My version: The wizard rolls to hit, and if hit, the Bugbear is slowed. Next round, the bugbear makes a save. However now, instead of it being a flip of the coin, the bugbear rolls a Will save (his modifier to his Will Defense, in this case a +6) against the wizard's Attack (10+attack modifier), which gives us an 18, in this example. If he fails to hit the required DC, he falls asleep.

So, in my example, the bugbear retains the same chance of being hit by the spell, but suffers a lower chance to escape it.

Now, had the spell been another spell, and targeted fortitude, the bugbear would have had an +8 modifier (since his fortitude defense is 18) in his attempt to get out of the wizard's spell. (The DC would still be 18, since the wizard's attack modifier most likely is the same, no matter if it is a spell that targets fortitude or will).

Since the attack +'s and defenses are pretty streamlined across the board, I do not think the change would be a big problem, or create some unbalancing issues. Yes, higher level monsters' spells and effects will be harder to escape/avoid, but is that so bad?

Anyway, it would be nice if you could point out some issues (that I seem to miss) that this change would cause in other parts of 4e.

Maybe you should be posting this to the house rules forum. Sounds like you want to not play 4E as writen, which is your choice.
 

Maybe you should be posting this to the house rules forum. Sounds like you want to not play 4E as writen, which is your choice.

Nice leap there, watch the ceiling. Regarding the house-rule thing, we have PS and Henry posting several times in this thread over the last weeks, so if it should be moved (I couldn't care less), I am sure one of them would have done so a long time ago.
 


People have pointed out all sorts of issues with it, and they don't seem to bother you. Go for it. If it doesn't work out in play you can always change it.

Was that to me? If so, I must have expressed myself poorly, I apologize for that. I thought it was pretty clear that I have changed my mind regarding my original post, I have realized it wouldn't work changing it. I still do not like the save to not fall over the edge, but so far, I haven't come up with a replacement, nor seen a suitable one posted here.

So all in all, the debate was fine. I learned that I was wrong. I just thought it a bit much to say that because I dislike one small part of the save mechanism, I do not want to play 4e as written.
 

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