Changing the high-level fighter

[Treebore]

These are a lot of good ideas, and has my powergamer heart beating with eager anticipation. However, the fighter I played to Epic levels (46th) was the scariest and deadliest character in the group, even the other fighter player said they wouldn't fight my character face to face, and the wizard player said they would only risk angering my character at about 200 yards.

What i am saying is, my experience didn't tell me that fighters are weaker, it proved that they were just as scary as any of the other classes, when it was melee combat.

So I don't get the initial premise that they become weaker after 8th level. Or maybe it was because I went into two PrC's, which had me give up a lot of feats, but gave me a couple of really cool combat abilities.

Still, a lot of nice, juicy, powerful ideas you have here.

 

[Odysseus]

What i am saying is, my experience didn't tell me that fighters are weaker, it proved that they were just as scary as any of the other classes, when it was melee combat.

So I don't get the initial premise that they become weaker after 8th level. Or maybe it was because I went into two PrC's, which had me give up a lot of feats, but gave me a couple of really cool combat abilities.

I'd agree they don't get weaker, but my experience is thats theres no fluff room. I've played wizards and fighters at up 16th level. And the fighter has to be optimal to complete, while the wizard doesn't .

 

[Talic]

A very similar thought to the orriginal solution posted, which I think is a bit strong.

Instead of giving bonuses to existing feats, at something like 8th, 12th, 16th, 20th levels, howabout reduce penalties to a specific feat by one. Thus at 8th level, you can chose to reduce the TWF penalties to -1/-1 or you could apply it to Combat Expertise and gain +3 AC for -2 Attk. The reduction in peanlties could be cumulative.

This means you can never gain bonuses (TWF at +2/+2 for example), and it can be applied to only the specific feat you chose at the time of gaining the ability. Just a minor bonus for staying focused in your tree of feats.

If nothing else, it might make a cleaner way of wording things.

 

[Li Shenron]

Feat Mastery (Ex): Numerical effects and bonuses from feats on the list of fighter bonus feats are increased by +1 at 8th level, +2 at 12th level, +3 at 16th level, and +4 at 20th level.

I think a feat designed this way is a very bad mistake... :\ This is a single feat which empowers many other feats the character has (or can have). As such, it is a feat much much much more valuable than any other feat.

In no way this feat seems to me in line with how the D&D game works, where everything in D&D is designed around the idea that improvements should happen "less than linearly" - or in other words, the next (equal) improvement should cost more than the previous.

But your feat provides an quite exponential effect IMHO... As long as the fighter has at least 1 feat eligible for this bonuses, the Feat Mastery has already paid its cost.

At the same time, the above is the same reason why the WotC designers never came up with too many Improved X feats, which would double the bonus by the base feat (such as feats which give an EXTRA +4 to Initiative or +2 ST if you have the basic versions of the feats). Because one core idea of D&D is to not "break the roof" of bonuses too easily.

If you want to achieve such an effect on the Fighter, at least try to use this last type of feats, in line with Greater Weapon Focus/Spec; allow a Superior WF/WS to give a +1 to attacks (req: Ftr 16) or +2 damage (req: Ftr 20) with a weapon.
Other feats could be:

Improved Dodge (+2 AC, req: Ftr 4, Dodge)
Greater Dodge (+3 AC, req: Ftr 8, ImpDodge)
Superior Dodge (+4 AC, req: Ftr 12, GreDodge)
Perfect Dodge (+5 AC, req: Ftr 16, SupDodge)

Improved Point Blank Shot (+2, req. Ftr 8, PBS)

and similar with others...

As you said at the beginning of your post, a Fighter is boring at high levels, but it's not weak. Players multiclass because they don't know which other feats to take and take levels in Barbarian or Ranger to get more special abilities.

 

[Terraism]

I think a feat designed this way is a very bad mistake... :\ This is a single feat which empowers many other feats the character has (or can have). As such, it is a feat much much much more valuable than any other feat.

I don't know if it'd change your evaluation, Li, but I wasn't talking about making it a feat, but rather a special ability the fighter got at higher levels (which levels was still up in the air.)

 

[CRGreathouse]

I don't know if it'd change your evaluation, Li, but I wasn't talking about making it a feat, but rather a special ability the fighter got at higher levels (which levels was still up in the air.)

I think Li's point still stands. Consider it a fighter-only feat, and the ability being an extra bonus feat (on top of the 11 the fighter gets now), and the point is the same.