D&D 5E Char Ops forums: Something I wish hadn't come over.

[Corpsetaker]

I always optimize. That doesn't mean I dump on other people. I'm happy to give advice, but I'd never tell another player what spells or abilities they need to pick. So honestly if you min/maxed and it ruined other people's fun, that's entirely on you. I've played with plenty of min/maxers who are fun folks.

It's not entirely on me because it became a product of those crazy combos. In order to challenge me, the DM had to throw stuff that would destroy the other players.

I don't consider that a playstyle.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The Character Ops forums are something I wish would die with the Wizards forums and not have made their way over here.

I find this type of culture very disruptive to the game overall because it breeds a type who think that you aren't playing a class right if you don't choose the most optimal choice, or there is a problem with class A if it's optimal choices don't out it on par with class B.

I was a Min/Maxer back in the day and I can tell you that it always led to games that were not pleasant. It ruined the fun for everyone at the table.

I think it's also why we saw the errata treadmill of 4th edition because as soon as new things came out, CO was finding that power X plus combo Y + Q was overpowered and so the next errata tried to fix it again only to cause even worse results.

I hope it's changed from what it was, but what I remember was basically all about the DPR.

For some D&D players, it is basically all about the DPR.

Others have other things they like.

It's a big game, folks play it in a lot of different ways.

I might personally question how satisfying the goal of max DPR can be in a game where clever role playing or a good Stealth check can out DPR anything (oh, you bypassed that entire encounter with a single check? That's equivalent to eleventy million hit points of damage or whatever, guess my meticulously researched character build ISN'T the most efficient...), but that designer's minutae doesn't always matter to folks playing the game. For some folks, the max-DPR build is itself the fun part. That's cool.

...it does make me wonder what it would look like if you just made a competitive game out of character building though....

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

I cringe when I hear things like "level dip," it's just not my style of play. I don't feel the need to bend/finagle rules and options to make an effective character - it's not where my fun in the game comes from.

That being said, it is for some people, and I see no harm in those people enjoying themselves. As long as it's not causing a headache in my games, it doesn't bother me.

 

[Ristamar]

I think the guides are interesting, and they often churn up discussion around vague areas of the rules (which I find more useful than the optimized builds). That being said, I don't take them as gospel.

 

[S'mon]

I always optimize. That doesn't mean I dump on other people.

There are people who do, though, and they're really annoying.

 

[CapnZapp]

We've had a Char Ops forum here for ages. It didn't "come over".

Like steeldragons said: previously the ENWorld 5E charop threads were relegated to a common dump where they had to mix with all other editions, but roughly at the same time as the mass exodus from WotC began, these threads started appearing in the main 5E forum.

It's easy to see how he came to the (mistaken) conclusion you set up a charop forum in response to the WotC news. After all, their visibility was significantly lower just a short few days ago. I know I didn't read them often, since the signal to noise ratio (being exclusively interested in 5E) was way too low.

But enough about that. I congratulate you on your fortuitous timing, Morrus. Already the charop 5th Ed view is more alive with relevant and interesting posts than I've seen it since... like ever! And not having to deal with that horrible WotC forum structure is decidely not a loss.

Cheers

 

[Pauper]

I don't think the CharOp form should be eliminated -- as the Angry DM says, "You can play your game any wrong way you want."

I do think, though, that people who don't care for CharOp shouldn't be required to wade through CharOp posts that appear in the general forum -- the CharOp folks know where to go to get their fix. In that sense, it's no different from restricting long posts about character backgrounds to an 'RP' sub-forum.

Please restrict the visibility of sub-forum posts to that sub-forum, and move topics that fit into that sub-forum into that forum from the general forum whenever possible.

Thanks!

 

[bedir than]

It's kind of interesting, but I actually want some optimizers to "break" my houserules because I'm a bit concerned about racial balances. None of the PCs I have so far are this type of player.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

It's kind of interesting, but I actually want some optimizers to "break" my houserules because I'm a bit concerned about racial balances. None of the PCs I have so far are this type of player.

Different people optimize in different ways, so you have to hope that you find someone who wants to "break" your houserules along dimension they can be broken. I'm pretty powergamey but if there were some combo that let you nova in melee for 500 DPR under ideal conditions where you achieve surprise right after finishing a long rest, I would never, ever uncover that combo for you.

Hope you find some!

 

[Patrick McGill]

I disagree heartily. D&D is fun for a lot of different people for a lot of different reasons. Those different reasons don't have to be contradictory; and a good DM knows how to run a campaign that caters to the fun being sought by their different players.

I'm not a Char Op type or min maxer, but I think the people who are into that provide an excellent foil to those that focus only on the ability to tell a story. Having a game that allows you to create grand stories AND runs like a well oiled machine makes the system ascend overall.

Just like any group of people, you have those who are overenthusiastic or fanatical. This is not true of every min maxer, and in my experience not true with the majority of them.

In fact, having that sort of player in a campaign you run can be a very fun challenge. It forces you to engage your players at different levels (story, exploration, combat). So called 'power gamers' usually want the effort they put into the game while not at the table (the min maxing part) rewarded in game. This can easily be done by putting them into situations that test their capabilities. You can do this while maintaining fun and focus for all players.

To get back on the immediate topic, however, I found the conversations within the CharOp forums of a lot of use as a DM for what to expect from my players and their power levels. I think we should be welcoming of all aspects of our hobby, even those we don't enjoy ourselves.

In the end, it's very easy to not go to that section of the forums.