character build help

[Wyvernhand]

The problem with Battle Sorc or Stalwart Sorc is that the benefits you get (larger HD, better BAB) only persist through the levels you take them. As soon as you PrC into AbjChamp, you are getting d10 HD and full BAB. The drawbacks of Battle Sorc, fewer spells per day/known, persist throughout ALL levels.

Thus, about the only benefit of Battle Sorc is casting in light armor. If you are creative enough, you can wear armor like Twilight Mithril Chain or even Gnome Twistcloth. Most of your AC bonus will come from the Shield spell, and other buffs like Dragonscales or Mage Armor.

Its just a short term gain and a long term loss.

 

[BENINHB]

If Warforged is allowed then i would go with Warforged Psychic Warrior4/Fighter2/Warforged Juggernaut 4. Take Adamantine Body as the first level feat. Take Psychic Warrior powers like Force Screen and Precognitive Defense, Expansion, Grip of Iron. You have 9 feats to work with, I'd take Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Power Attack, Improved Bullrush, Improved Grapple, Dungeon Crasher plus 2 more. Use a reach weapon and still threaten adjacent with your slam attack and armor spikes. Profit.

31 AC = 10 Base +8 armor +1 Dex + 5 Augmented Force Screen + 2 Precog Defense + 5 Combat Expertise

DR2/- (not huge at 10th level but it still adds up over time)

Your Fort and Will save will be good and Precog Defense boosts your saves as well as your AC. As a Warforged Juggernaut you are Immune to a lot of things anyway save or no save, including immunity to crits, sneak attacks, non lethal damage, Mind Effecting spells and abilities, Death Effects and Necromancy effects.

Use Expansion to get large then bullrush and smash, trip then hit your opponents all in the same turn or you can grapple and use your slam and armor spikes to grind them to a pulp or at least take them out of the fight. You can use Combat Expertise to boost your AC then use your reach weapon to clog up the battle field while being relatively safe from Repost

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Thus, about the only benefit of Battle Sorc is casting in light armor

...+ 2xHP & better BAB than standard Sorc (possibly key in a melee arcanist); able to cast in Medium armors if you take 1 feat (getting you mithril plate) without penalty as opposed to -%ASF for SpSwd.

...Dragonscales or Mage Armor.

Don't know the former but the latter doesn't stack with armor.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Twilight is only a +1 enhancement, mithral is fairly inexpensive on light and medium armors and shields, and dipping Spellsword 1 for another 10% reduction is super easy. I don't think the armored casting is that important a benefit. Not to mention you could just use Mage Armor / Greater Mage Armor at earlier levels before you have the money or SpSw pre-reqs for the armored options.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It is also about personal preferences: I'd rather armor up as a melee arcanist than have to use the time to cast a buff on myself...

And when the arcanist in question is some kind of Sorcerer for whom each spell learned is precious, I'd REALLY prefer to learn spells that can benefit more than just myself.

Consider, a Sorc1 who knows Mage Armor and an attack spell has the exact same number of attack spells as a BttlSorc- and takes an extra round to start using it as he buffs himself with MA. AND he has half the HP.

 

[Dandu]

And in the long run?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Mage Armor and the Greater version last hour/level, you wouldn't be buffing with it anywhere near combat generally. And at least in the case of Mage Armor, you can just wand it. Greater Mage Armor wand (or even better, Eternal Wand) is eventually affordable, but by then you have the money and levels for real armor anyway.

 

[Wyvernhand]

If your DM bans PrCs, and you can only build as a Sorc20, and you want to play a gish, Battle Sorc is probably a better option. In the case of a Sorcadin, where you only have 4 total levels of sorcerer, Battle Sorc is a terrible option. You lose ALL of the benefits of Battle Sorc once you PrC out, yet all of the drawbacks persist.

Anyway, your example is flawed. Your first level Battle Sorcerer has one 1st level spell known. If a regular Sorc burned one of his spells known on Mage Armor, he'd still have one other spell known. So, both have the same number of non-Mage Armor spells known...one. BAB is the same at level 1, also at level 2. Its not until 3 that Battle Sorc pulls ahead. Also, spells per day, a Battle Sorc knows one less. If that reflects the one spell the a normal Sorc spends on casting his mage armor, they break even there.

Also, in a Sorcadin build, you have 2 levels of Paladin, so that covers armor/weapon proficiency and then some.

Pretty much, in a standard Sorcadin build, you gain ~4 hp, and in return, you lose 1 spell per day, and 1 spell know. Thats a pretty crappy trade if you ask me.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

And in the long run?

And

Mage Armor and the Greater version last hour/level, you wouldn't be buffing with it anywhere near combat generally. And at least in the case of Mage Armor, you can just wand it.

First of all, these statements still apply:

Me
It is also about personal preferences: I'd rather armor up as a melee arcanist than have to use the time to cast a buff on myself...

And when the arcanist in question is some kind of Sorcerer for whom each spell learned is precious, I'd REALLY prefer to learn spells that can benefit more than just myself.

Armor is not dispellable, it functions in no-magic zones. It lasts more than minutes or hours.

In the long run?

IME, a martial arcanist using BttlSorc over Sorc has improved odds of surviving the various melees he'll be involved in with the additional HP and better BAB, thus making it to the long run.

In addition, whether or not you can 'wand' something is PC and campaign specific. I, for one, tend not to use creation feats for my PCs, which means the only R/S/Ws I get to use are those I get through adventuring.

You lose ALL of the benefits of Battle Sorc once you PrC out, yet all of the drawbacks persist.

You're overstating this a mite. You don't lose the extra HP or the extra BAB- which help you survive to get to those PrCLs- and continue to aid the PC throughout his span, nor the ability to cast without ASF in up to Medium armors with the use of a feat. With that feat, he can wear mithril fullplate with zero ASF, while a PC with only a few levels of SpSwd will still have between 15-20% ASF to contend with in the same suit.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I don't expect magic walmarts, but it is assumed by the rules that even moderate sized towns will have magic items on the scale of 1st level wands. If a DM houserules his setting differently, then things change. Likewise, if a DM got rid of spell component pouches and made the PC find all the stupid little material components and keep track of their expenditure...Eschew Materials goes from a "sort of nice feat" to "best feat ever." A game where magic items can't be bought at all drastically alters the balance between the classes (no matter to what degree you think they were balanced originally). But these aren't the norm that the rules were written for. Expecting to buy a 750 gp wand is entirely reasonable in most games IME.