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D&D 5E Character creation night

A few thoughts:
1) compared to a group of experienced gamers sitting down with the phb and dmg for the first time ever to design 3.5 characters, 3 hours is blisteringly fast. I've spent an hour on one Pathfinder character, having books in hand, and already knowing what I wanted. For pregens ive been making in 5e, i've been finding about 20 minutes for a level 1 character with pen nd paper. Time and learning curve is always a factor for a new system.

2) ability scores are taking getting used to, but should be too bad.

3) sounds like a neat party with varied potential.

5) i would be curious in how the hit points were derived.
 

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hit points were rolled, one player asked if he could take the average if he rolled less and I said "No, if you want to discuses using average you wont roll" then almost everyone rolled low... the bard rogue took max 1st level (well everyone does) then rolled 1,1,2 for levels 2,3,and 4... since he only had 3d8 out, it took him a while to roll the last one well he very comically yelled to the dice gods "Why, why have you forsaken me?"

I know the wizard/druid has an 8 con, but I think everyone else is in the 12-14 range, and the Dwarf is the Mountain Dwarf
 

I recently did a character session with 5 players. Starting at 4th level. Those that new what type of character they wanted took literally 5 minutes to finish all the mechanical stuff. The character was done as fast as they could write it down. They took a little longer to fill in some of the campaign specific stuff I asked of them, but that is not a reflection on D&D.

The players that did not know what they wanted took 2 hours, as they loved every class they looked at. The first 3 players were waiting around for them, one even picked up the monster manual and started DMing a little game for the guys that had finished. Once they decided though, it took them all of 15 minutes tops to finish up their character.

My players felt that they had too few skills, so I mixed things up a bit. I decided to do skills PDQ-system style. Where instead of having a skill, they just make a statement about their characters' past or abilities, roughly equating to a skill.

Examples:
I love nature and spend my time drawing pictures of animals and plants and reading all about them. (This equates to nature skill, but also would help in drawing or using a library)
I spent my teenage years in the circus, working as an acrobat (Acrobatics skill, but also showmanship, knowledge of troupes, streetwise at festivals)
I worked as a barber-surgeon in a mining town (Medical skill, also knows how to make people look sharp, social skills with miners)
I'm a cowboy (Animal handling, harmonic skills, rope mastery, social skills with other cowboys)

This meant that they felt far more fleshed out and slightly more broad skills. This took the experienced players more time, as they tried to game the system, the newer players got it right away, as it is the more natural way to think about your character.
 

well to give you some idea, 3 of the 5 of them had written backgrounds with some stuff basicly drawn up already "X class/race this sub class" but only 3 of us own PHBs... and I printed out some landscape character sheets last week and handed them out, we passed the books around for about 45mins talking idea's....


((((Warning this is not a edition war thread))))) we talked a lot about what roles they would all play using 4e terminology for combat and TV tropoes 5 man band for social and rp roles...

Our Warlock wants to be a Sherlock holmes type and a defender in combat, Our Eldritch knight sees himself as a big brute striker based on BA barakis... Our 2 rogues are funny both are facemen but the bard/assassin see himself as a striker and a leader, and the arcane trickster meant to just be support and not be combat at all (but has 2nd best AC and HP, and with 3d6 sneak attack does good damage) the Wizard/Druid sees her self as the loner/crazy hero (since we got face and BA she say's she's Murdock) and a controller...

(((((Warning over,)))))

they took the basic gear from there class and background, then rolled 1d10x25gp then added the base 500 and they almost all ended up with a lot of gold, I did let then buy some magic gear:

I came up with it mostly on the fly, but here is what I let them buy:

Potion of healing 75 gp
Spell scroll (cantrip, DC13 +5) 100 gp
Potion of Climbing 100 gp
Spell Scroll (1st level, DC13 +5) on your spell list 125 gp
Spell Scroll (1st level, DC13 +5) not on your spell list 200 gp
Potion of greater healing 200 gp
Potion of Fire breath 250 gp
Ammunition +1 350 gp

so far everyone emailed me they are exceted to start and I am working on some last min world stuff...
 

hit points were rolled, one player asked if he could take the average if he rolled less and I said "No, if you want to discuses using average you wont roll" then almost everyone rolled low... the bard rogue took max 1st level (well everyone does) then rolled 1,1,2 for levels 2,3,and 4... since he only had 3d8 out, it took him a while to roll the last one well he very comically yelled to the dice gods "Why, why have you forsaken me?"

I know the wizard/druid has an 8 con, but I think everyone else is in the 12-14 range, and the Dwarf is the Mountain Dwarf

this is why I make everyone roll, but if you roll less than half, roll again!
 

@GMforPowergamers, I think you were spot on for having your "powergamers" roll for hit points. Glad you stuck to that and didn't cave in when the player asked you for average. I allowed my PCs to use average hit points and have regretted since.

I'm also currently DMing a 2e game (as well) and we are having much more fun with the rolling for everything - abilities, hit points, initiative every round...etc.
 

@GMforPowergamers, I think you were spot on for having your "powergamers" roll for hit points. Glad you stuck to that and didn't cave in when the player asked you for average. I allowed my PCs to use average hit points and have regretted since.

I'm also currently DMing a 2e game (as well) and we are having much more fun with the rolling for everything - abilities, hit points, initiative every round...etc.

I get more liberal as editions go on, but I'm more strick at the beginning of each edition, If everyone (or atleast more then 1 PC) wanted to do averages we would have talked about it, but in general I don't like "safty nets" where you roll and take X if you roll low...
 

1) Character gen isn't as quick as I hoped the 5 players around my table with 3 player hand books and 2 DMGs (Also the first time we had so few books) took almost 3 full hours not counting breaks for food.

I think they brought it upon themselves...

- first game in a new edition
- starting at 5th level
- all races, classes, backgrounds, subclasses from PHB presumably allowed
- multiclassing allowed
- feats allowed

Still 3 whole hours sound definitely too much for me! Did they spend a lot of time optimizing or synchronizing choices? (i.e. thinking about "someone else already has this covered, so let me change it for something else" all the time) Did they cherrypick equipment instead of using packages, did the DM grant more starting money and allowed pre-bought magic items?

Even if sharing 3 PHB in 5 people certainly slowed down things, I wouldn't expect it to take 1.5 hours to create 5-level PCs.

I don't have the PHB yet, but I have the feeling that the books (just like the free PDFs) fail at presenting the material for what it really is: optional for the most part. You don't have to roll or pick from all those tables in the background descriptions for example, but my guess is that the PHB doesn't tell you clearly, so everybody expects to use everything that isn't clearly labelled as optional.

2) We used pre set stats, and no one was happy in the end with them... I don't know if it is just being used to 3e big numbers, but it seemed weird

My guess is just spoiled players :) It should be clear that the importance of stats can be different across editions, you don't know if they are 'right' or 'wrong' until you play the game.

3) Casters everywhere. Well 5 players and 5 people with spells, feels like 3e again in that way (my groups steared away from non casters due to preference of complexitiy and capability).

Indeed 5e has a spellcaster (or at least magical) version for every class. I guess it was done because a lot of gamers like high-magic campaigns.

It's not a particularly good thing that magic implies complexity and neither that being magic-less prevents complexity. I think it was stated explicitly by the designers that they want to make complexity independent from class, at least in the most vague sense, i.e. it should not be so that if you want to play a low-complexity character you must be forced to choose a non-magical one and viceversa. Something has been done about it, but IMHO not much, they kind of stopped there at the Battlemaster vs Champion, and did not keep the same design target in mind for other classes (and definitely ended up with a pretty high baseline complexity to all casters).

4) Small skill list, It felt like a short list of skills (one of my complaints about 4e) and I hope it works better in play.

I don't like short skills list as in the previous 2 editions either. I think too short skills list actually goes against the idea of skills in the first place i.e. differentiation through specialization. The only way around it for me is to consider handling the skills list in a more open-ended way.

5) Combat capability, It seems odd that everyone has so much in the way of HD and bonus to hit, one character was trying to do a support character and ended up with 2nd highest hp, 2nd highest AC, and not the lowest + to hit...and a lot of combat damage potential.

Well I suppose that this was what a lot of people wanted. Everything has to be evaluated vs monster capabilities however.
 

I think they brought it upon themselves...

- first game in a new edition
- starting at 5th level
- all races, classes, backgrounds, subclasses from PHB presumably allowed
- multiclassing allowed
- feats allowed
yea we used a bunch of the optional stuff (only 1 person costumed a background and it was the acolyte trading 1 skill for another) I had thought since so many people said 15-20 min character creation time 1 hour would be enough...I was wrong...

Still 3 whole hours sound definitely too much for me! Did they spend a lot of time optimizing or synchronizing choices? (i.e. thinking about "someone else already has this covered, so let me change it for something else" all the time) Did they cherrypick equipment instead of using packages, did the DM grant more starting money and allowed pre-bought magic items?
that's the thing... they very much didn't synch up we have ALOT of overlap. they also didn't really cherry pick equipment, even the 600-700gp and the items I let them buy only took a min or two at the end...it was all generating there stats writing there abilities and picking spells...


Even if sharing 3 PHB in 5 people certainly slowed down things, I wouldn't expect it to take 1.5 hours to create 5-level PCs.
yea since we still have a campaign going that was what I was expecting... get togather at 5, BS till pizza comes around 6, then eat then make characters and start other game by 8... but nope

I don't have the PHB yet, but I have the feeling that the books (just like the free PDFs) fail at presenting the material for what it really is: optional for the most part. You don't have to roll or pick from all those tables in the background descriptions for example, but my guess is that the PHB doesn't tell you clearly, so everybody expects to use everything that isn't clearly labelled as optional.
we didn't use bonds or flaws at all, everyone did roll a trinket though...


My guess is just spoiled players :) It should be clear that the importance of stats can be different across editions, you don't know if they are 'right' or 'wrong' until you play the game.
don't have to guess at all you are 100% nose on...
Indeed 5e has a spellcaster (or at least magical) version for every class. I guess it was done because a lot of gamers like high-magic campaigns.

It's not a particularly good thing that magic implies complexity and neither that being magic-less prevents complexity. I think it was stated explicitly by the designers that they want to make complexity independent from class, at least in the most vague sense, i.e. it should not be so that if you want to play a low-complexity character you must be forced to choose a non-magical one and viceversa. Something has been done about it, but IMHO not much, they kind of stopped there at the Battlemaster vs Champion, and did not keep the same design target in mind for other classes (and definitely ended up with a pretty high baseline complexity to all casters).
yea, we had a 2 players that both wanted to try battle master fighter, but both decided they would rather have cool spells and that spells were the way to go... :erm::(:.-(


I don't like short skills list as in the previous 2 editions either. I think too short skills list actually goes against the idea of skills in the first place i.e. differentiation through specialization. The only way around it for me is to consider handling the skills list in a more open-ended way.
man if there is anything pathfinder did right it was the skills...maybe a little more condesned... but then again maybe tool prof will do that... we shall see
Well I suppose that this was what a lot of people wanted. Everything has to be evaluated vs monster capabilities however.

yea after 2-3 games I wonder how this view changes
 

Random barely-considered thoughts...

Interesting mix of PCs. Multiclass druid aside, they seem like a good fit for an urban swords & sorcery style campaign. Their collective hit points are on the low side for the published adventures we've seen so far. PCs are going to drop frequently if they go the dungeon-delving route.
 

Into the Woods

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