Quasqueton
First Post
Many people complain about how long it takes to make a character in D&D3, especially compared to earlier editions of the game.
Let's compare (making 1st level characters):
Generating/placing ability scores. Well, now adays it does seem that more people use a point buy system rather than rolling scores. With rolling, you get what you get; you just need to decide where to place the numbers. With point buy, some people tend to tweak and tweak to get just the right efficiency.
But is the time spent tweaking scores with point buy greater than the time spent rolling 4 dice six times (and then possibly rerolling)? Total time: 2-3 minutes?
Choosing a race. Is this any diffferent, at all? Total time: 10 seconds?
Choosing a class. Is this any different, at all? Total time: 10 seconds?
Figuring skills. This is something only found in AD&D2 of the earlier editions. Since it is perfectly legitimate to just max out ranks in a number of skills equal to your skill points (fighters max out climb and swim; clerics max out diplomacy and heal; rogues max out climb, hide, move silently, tumble, balance, search, disable device, pick pockets), the only reason this step takes an inordinate amount of time is when the Player wants to tweak and micromanage his skills.
Ironically, those that complain about this step taking so much time, because they want to micromanage their skills, seem to overlook the fact that this personalization was completely missing from earlier (skill-less) editions. They didn't even *have* the option to do this. You'd think they'd look at this step as a feature, not a bug. You'd also think if they saw it as an annoying time sink, they'd do it the easy way: max out the minimum number of skills. Total time: 1-5 minutes?
Choosing feats. Something new with D&D3. Another feature for personalizing a character, that some people take a ridiculous amount of time figuring out. From my experience, the reason most people take so long figuring what feat(s) to take is not in the rule feature itself, it is that the Player is thinking 2-10 levels out. They want X feat at 3rd level, Y feat at 6th level, and Z prestige class at 7th level.
In previous editions of this game, who thought further in the future than their next immediate level? This is not a problem with the rules themselves, it is a paradigm shift in the Players' minds. Total time: 30 seconds - 5 minutes.
Choosing spells. D&D3 spellcasters have a few more spells per day than their earlier edition counterparts, so this can take a little longer in the latest edition. Because choosing three cantrips and two 1st-level spells takes a few seconds more time than choosing just one 1st-level spell. But thank the Designers for this feature/bug. Total time: 1-5 minutes.
Higher levels.With each level above 1st, it takes another couple minutes, maybe.
Increasing skills: 5 seconds per level, unless the Player is a major tweaker.
Picking new feats: 10 seconds per 3 levels (or 2 levels for fighters). Even Players who took a long time to pick their feats at initial character creation don't take too long on this, as they have already planned their feat selections a dozen levels ahead.
Rolling new hit points: 5 seconds per level, in all editions, unless you use a set number for hit points, in which case it might be 10 seconds total.
Picking new spells: 1 minute per level, though I've seen some Players have to read *every single spell* at each level to make up their mind; taking 10 minutes per level. Most can skim through the short description lists and pick their spells, checking the full description once they've updated their character and gotten on with the game.
Picking magic items: In previous editions, DMs either had the Players roll for random items on the DMG charts, or they gave the PCs what they wanted them to have. Now adays, most DMs seem to let the Players "purchase" their items on their own. This is good and bad.
Good in that the DM doesn't have to oversee every PC's aquisitions; the Players all pick their items at one time without close DM supervision. Bad in that now the Players micromanage and tweak every magic "purchase" like they do skills, feats, and spells. I've seen some Players simply pick +1 flaming weapon, +2 armor, bag of holding, and cloak of resistance. And I've seen some Players pick a dozen separate potions, two dozen different scrolls, and another dozen minor items so they feel ready for *any* adventuring situation.
But even with a Player picking dozens of small items, it doesn't seem to take any more time than I remember in previous editions with the DM supervising every item roll or choice. Total time: 1 minute per level.
So, to make a 1st-level character from scratch, I figure it takes 18:20 minutes at most. To make a 15th-level character from scratch, I figure it takes almost 50 minutes (unless it is a worst-case scenario for picking spells).
In previous editions, without skills and feats, the time to create a 1st-level character is 8:20 minutes. A 15th-level character might take 45 minutes.
Anecdotal evidence. I once made a 20th-level monk for a one-shot Player vs. Player gladiator game in 30 minutes, including "purchasing" magic items. I haven't made such a high-level character before or since. As DM, the biggest headache time-wise is choosing spells for spellcasting NPCs, just to keep all my wizards from being carbon copies of each other; something I didn't concern myself in years past.
I ran a one-shot high-level single-combat game once, and even starting with the base stats for NPC characters in the DMG, it took the Players nearly 2 hours to make 13th-level characters and prepare them for the one battle. But of the 4 Players, 2 were very new to the game (less than a year's experience; and one of them choose the wizard character, the other a fighter), and none of them (to my knowledge) had made a character that high level. I really think I, alone, could have made all 4 of those characters in that length of time. A lot of their time was spent min/maxing magic item and spell selections, and then figuring their stats after all the pre-teleport buffing.
Now, if you bring in books beyond the core rules to the character creation process, you can double or triple, or worse, the amount of time it takes. I figure it increases the time by 100% (of the base time) for each additional relevant supplement you add.
How long does it take you to create a character?
Quasqueton
Let's compare (making 1st level characters):
Generating/placing ability scores. Well, now adays it does seem that more people use a point buy system rather than rolling scores. With rolling, you get what you get; you just need to decide where to place the numbers. With point buy, some people tend to tweak and tweak to get just the right efficiency.
But is the time spent tweaking scores with point buy greater than the time spent rolling 4 dice six times (and then possibly rerolling)? Total time: 2-3 minutes?
Choosing a race. Is this any diffferent, at all? Total time: 10 seconds?
Choosing a class. Is this any different, at all? Total time: 10 seconds?
Figuring skills. This is something only found in AD&D2 of the earlier editions. Since it is perfectly legitimate to just max out ranks in a number of skills equal to your skill points (fighters max out climb and swim; clerics max out diplomacy and heal; rogues max out climb, hide, move silently, tumble, balance, search, disable device, pick pockets), the only reason this step takes an inordinate amount of time is when the Player wants to tweak and micromanage his skills.
Ironically, those that complain about this step taking so much time, because they want to micromanage their skills, seem to overlook the fact that this personalization was completely missing from earlier (skill-less) editions. They didn't even *have* the option to do this. You'd think they'd look at this step as a feature, not a bug. You'd also think if they saw it as an annoying time sink, they'd do it the easy way: max out the minimum number of skills. Total time: 1-5 minutes?
Choosing feats. Something new with D&D3. Another feature for personalizing a character, that some people take a ridiculous amount of time figuring out. From my experience, the reason most people take so long figuring what feat(s) to take is not in the rule feature itself, it is that the Player is thinking 2-10 levels out. They want X feat at 3rd level, Y feat at 6th level, and Z prestige class at 7th level.
In previous editions of this game, who thought further in the future than their next immediate level? This is not a problem with the rules themselves, it is a paradigm shift in the Players' minds. Total time: 30 seconds - 5 minutes.
Choosing spells. D&D3 spellcasters have a few more spells per day than their earlier edition counterparts, so this can take a little longer in the latest edition. Because choosing three cantrips and two 1st-level spells takes a few seconds more time than choosing just one 1st-level spell. But thank the Designers for this feature/bug. Total time: 1-5 minutes.
Higher levels.With each level above 1st, it takes another couple minutes, maybe.
Increasing skills: 5 seconds per level, unless the Player is a major tweaker.
Picking new feats: 10 seconds per 3 levels (or 2 levels for fighters). Even Players who took a long time to pick their feats at initial character creation don't take too long on this, as they have already planned their feat selections a dozen levels ahead.
Rolling new hit points: 5 seconds per level, in all editions, unless you use a set number for hit points, in which case it might be 10 seconds total.
Picking new spells: 1 minute per level, though I've seen some Players have to read *every single spell* at each level to make up their mind; taking 10 minutes per level. Most can skim through the short description lists and pick their spells, checking the full description once they've updated their character and gotten on with the game.
Picking magic items: In previous editions, DMs either had the Players roll for random items on the DMG charts, or they gave the PCs what they wanted them to have. Now adays, most DMs seem to let the Players "purchase" their items on their own. This is good and bad.
Good in that the DM doesn't have to oversee every PC's aquisitions; the Players all pick their items at one time without close DM supervision. Bad in that now the Players micromanage and tweak every magic "purchase" like they do skills, feats, and spells. I've seen some Players simply pick +1 flaming weapon, +2 armor, bag of holding, and cloak of resistance. And I've seen some Players pick a dozen separate potions, two dozen different scrolls, and another dozen minor items so they feel ready for *any* adventuring situation.
But even with a Player picking dozens of small items, it doesn't seem to take any more time than I remember in previous editions with the DM supervising every item roll or choice. Total time: 1 minute per level.
So, to make a 1st-level character from scratch, I figure it takes 18:20 minutes at most. To make a 15th-level character from scratch, I figure it takes almost 50 minutes (unless it is a worst-case scenario for picking spells).
In previous editions, without skills and feats, the time to create a 1st-level character is 8:20 minutes. A 15th-level character might take 45 minutes.
Anecdotal evidence. I once made a 20th-level monk for a one-shot Player vs. Player gladiator game in 30 minutes, including "purchasing" magic items. I haven't made such a high-level character before or since. As DM, the biggest headache time-wise is choosing spells for spellcasting NPCs, just to keep all my wizards from being carbon copies of each other; something I didn't concern myself in years past.
I ran a one-shot high-level single-combat game once, and even starting with the base stats for NPC characters in the DMG, it took the Players nearly 2 hours to make 13th-level characters and prepare them for the one battle. But of the 4 Players, 2 were very new to the game (less than a year's experience; and one of them choose the wizard character, the other a fighter), and none of them (to my knowledge) had made a character that high level. I really think I, alone, could have made all 4 of those characters in that length of time. A lot of their time was spent min/maxing magic item and spell selections, and then figuring their stats after all the pre-teleport buffing.
Now, if you bring in books beyond the core rules to the character creation process, you can double or triple, or worse, the amount of time it takes. I figure it increases the time by 100% (of the base time) for each additional relevant supplement you add.
How long does it take you to create a character?
Quasqueton
