Character Generation - Stat Draft Method

[GSHamster]

So basically I don't like that 4d6 drop the lowest often gives a large spread between the best and worst PC stat-wise (and, as a result, character power level).

I don't like that point buy results in cookie cutter PC's. Requiring 3 odd and 3 even stats still won't change the fact that almost all fighters will have high Str and Con and low Cha and Int, all Clerics will have high Wis and lower Dex, etc.

Hmm. I think that's kind of contradictory, but we'll see. How about this:

The player chooses a class, and then chooses 1 primary ability and 1 secondary ability.

For the primary ability, she rolls 14 + 1d4.
For the secondary ability, she rolls 12 + 1d6.
For the other four abilities, she rolls 4d6, drop the lowest, in order. That is, Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Chr, skipping over her primary and secondary ability.

So if she wanted a fighter, she would roll 14+1d4 for Strength, giving a Str score between 15 and 18. Then 12 + 1d6 for Con giving a Con score from 13 to 18. Then 4d6 drop lowest for Dex, Int, Wis, Chr in order, giving a completely random set of numbers.

This guarantees solid, decent scores for the two most important abilities for the class. However, the rest of the character is organically rolled. There are no "dump stats". You might end up with a smart fighter, or a wise fighter, or a charismatic fighter, but you can't predict it.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

If you're insisting on rolled stats, might I suggest my prefered method for such things?:

- Each player rolls (4d6 drop lowest) seven times, dropping the lowest. These become potential Stat Arrays.
- Everyone votes on which Stat Array to use.
- Everyone uses the same Stat Array, but can arrange as desired.

Yeah, I had thought of that, and discussed it with one of my players. I discounted it as I think it will result in stats that are too high.

You're basically rolling 5 sets of stats and then picking the best one. You would have to think that at least one of those 5 sets of stats is going to be pretty awesome. I'm thinking multiple high stats and probably nothing below a 10.

I know the heroes are supposed to be extra special, but that is probably too high powered for the game I want to run. The players already have access to the entire Complete series (3.5E) and the Spell Compendium. Everything outside the PHB still has to be approved by me first, but it does make for more powerful character compared to characters using just the PHB. I also allow 3 Action Points (as per the rules in Unearthed Arcana, but limited to a maximum of 3 per PC at any time), which bumps the PC's power level up a little bit as well.

I know the AoW is regarded as a difficult campaign and has a reputation for PC kills but, based on how the Shacked City campaign went (another campaign regarded as a meatgrinder) I think my players will be able to handle it without the need for super-high stats.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

Olaf the Stout

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Have you tried the 9 box system? The rolls are still random, but you have a bit less choice as to where they end up. You can choose whatever random method you like (3d6, 4d6 drop lowest).

Here's how it works... Make a 3 x 3 grid. Put your rolled stats into each of the squares of the grid. Across the top... label the columns "S", "D", "C". Along the left side... label the rows "I","W","C".

The player can choose their Strength only from the "S" column. Once a value is chosen it is unavailable for another stat. Keep choosing stats until done.

Anyway... just another method to try.

I'm assuming that this the method you are referring to?

I have seen that method before, but had totally forgotten about it. It is definitely an interesting method that I imagine would result in more diverse PC's due to more constrained choices than the "arrange as desired" method.

I think I'll keep it in the wings should the stat draft method turn out to be a total bust. Without looking into it further, it doesn't seem to address the issue of disparity between PC's due to good rolls vs bad rolls.

Olaf the Stout

 

[Olaf the Stout]

[MENTION=13703]Olaf the Stout[/MENTION]--have fun running Age of Worms. This was a great AP for me to run. However, I would make the stat generation higher because there are lot of lethal encounters--even in the first adventure, the Whispering Cairn. I had three near TPKs (everyone dies except for one character who runs away--no recovery of the fallen). The death count overall was high too that one of my players created a "Book of the Dead" to record all the names of the fallen. It got to be a big list. Overall, it was a great storyline and a blast to run.

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it.

We just ran through the Shackled City AP. It was supposed to be a meat grinder, and I told the players this up front. We used point buy (30 points) for character generation. I fully expected there to be numerous deaths. However, in the whole campaign (1st level to 18/19th level PC's) there were only 5 or 6 deaths, and half of those were simply a result of really bad decision making on the players' part, not overpowered encounters.

We also had 50-odd occasions where a PC was taken into the negatives in the campaign (we kept track of it! ), so some of the encounters were quite challenging. But, having said all that, there were a heap of encounters that the PC's simply cake-walked, including several that had resulted in multiple PC deaths in other campaigns. We had 5 PC's and an NPC in the group, so that definitely helped.

I have been told that the AoW is even more challenging than Shackled City and that the first 2 adventures are quite deadly. However, I am planning on running Mad God's Key as the opening adventure to the campaign (with the Whispering Cairn, Three Faces of Evil,etc following after that), which should definitely help my players as they will probably be a level higher than expected. I may even have to bump some encounters up in difficulty as a result!

I'm not running Mad God's Key because I was worried about them getting killed without a lead-in adventure to get some experience under their belts. I'm running it because I it reads like a really fun adventure and it seems to fit into the AoW campaign with almost no modifications needed.

In any case, I think the PC's should be fine without me giving them super-high stats. I could be wrong though!

Olaf the Stout

 

[kitsune9]

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it.

We just ran through the Shackled City AP.

I did play some Shackled City, but our group actually got bored with the campaign and they abandoned. I had quit the campaign because I was getting married and needed to give up one of my two campaigns, so I gave up that one.

One of my other buddies is wrapping up Curse of the Crimson Throne and he found it "okay".

I'm reading Carrion Crown right now because I'm going to run it and I'm really liking it. For CC, I'm making it gritty with only 12 point buy, death is permanent (there is a fate point mechanic though for one use), while there is magic abound, it can only be bought and sold in the big towns and cities. Going to a village casting magic or trying to buy or sell magic items is a quick way for superstitious villagers to form a mob.

 

[Crothian]

Olaf, I feel your pain. I struggled with this for years and finally tossed the whole stat generation system and just let the Players pick their stats. I then make sure that no one is too powerful or too weak and work with the players to adjust their stats up or down as needed.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Hmm. I think that's kind of contradictory, but we'll see. How about this:

The player chooses a class, and then chooses 1 primary ability and 1 secondary ability.

For the primary ability, she rolls 14 + 1d4.
For the secondary ability, she rolls 12 + 1d6.
For the other four abilities, she rolls 4d6, drop the lowest, in order. That is, Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Chr, skipping over her primary and secondary ability.

So if she wanted a fighter, she would roll 14+1d4 for Strength, giving a Str score between 15 and 18. Then 12 + 1d6 for Con giving a Con score from 13 to 18. Then 4d6 drop lowest for Dex, Int, Wis, Chr in order, giving a completely random set of numbers.

This guarantees solid, decent scores for the two most important abilities for the class. However, the rest of the character is organically rolled. There are no "dump stats". You might end up with a smart fighter, or a wise fighter, or a charismatic fighter, but you can't predict it.

I'm not sure how it is contradictory. Point buy puts the PC's on the same power level (which I think is a good thing), but the stats normally get heavily optimised and characters of a particular class end up with identical or very similar stat lines (which I don't like).

"4d6, drop the lowest, arrange as desired" makes things a little more random, which reduces the cookie cutter effect (which I think is a good thing). However, depending on how well or how poorly your players roll, you can end up with some PC's that are much more powerful than others (which I don't like). i.e. Joe rolls so well that he creates a Fighter that he puts his best rolls into Str and Con and his third best stat (Wis) is still higher than Bob's Cleric.

Sure, it doesn't happen all the time, but I have seen it happen on multiple occasions.

In any case, the system you proposed above looks interesting. It is similar to the Gamma World method that scourger mentioned, but without the guaranteed 18 and 16 for your primary and secondary stats.

It is definitely a method that allows players to guarantee that they will have good (and possibly exceptional) primary and secondary ability scores, while at the same time producing quite a few PC's that are outside the sterotypical build for their class.

Olaf the Stout

 

[dagger]

Here is what we did for a recent PF game we started.

Each player rolled 3 sets of stas 4d6 drop lowest.

We took the best ones and put them on the white board and we discussed as group who got what.


We knew before hand what class each person wanted to run though. I was going rogue and got this stat line 17 17 14 14 12 6. The burly cleric with a 17 str carries most of his equipment.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

I did play some Shackled City, but our group actually got bored with the campaign and they abandoned. I had quit the campaign because I was getting married and needed to give up one of my two campaigns, so I gave up that one.

One of my other buddies is wrapping up Curse of the Crimson Throne and he found it "okay".

I'm reading Carrion Crown right now because I'm going to run it and I'm really liking it. For CC, I'm making it gritty with only 12 point buy, death is permanent (there is a fate point mechanic though for one use), while there is magic abound, it can only be bought and sold in the big towns and cities. Going to a village casting magic or trying to buy or sell magic items is a quick way for superstitious villagers to form a mob.

We had great fun with SCAP, but I found it a bit of a slog at the end due to the extra work the DM has running high level adventures in 3.5E. The story was awesome, and is what kept me going. High level play, on the other hand, was not anywhere near as much fun as what I expected. There's just too many numbers floating around to remember.

It also took 3 years of fortnightly sessions to complete! So for the next campaign I was keen to have something a little shorter. However, I put the following campaign options in front of my players (along with a summary of the campaign, types of adventures, creatures encountered and levels to/from).

Age of Worms
Savage Tide
Rise of the Runelords
Legacy of Fire
Serpent’s Skull
Shades of Grey
Ptolus
Castle Whiterock
Rappan Athuk
Customised Campaign (likely using a mix of Dungeon adventures and some of my own design)

Age of Worms was a clear cut winner, which surprised me (especially as none of my players follow D&D online much, so their knowledge of all these campaigns was limited to my summary document.

In any case, despite the fact we are playing another 1-20 campaign, I am really looking forward to it. The fact that there are several links to the SCAP (Celeste, Ebon Triad, etc.) should make it fun too.

Olaf the Stout

 

[kitsune9]

Olaf, I feel your pain. I struggled with this for years and finally tossed the whole stat generation system and just let the Players pick their stats.

I get to pick all 18's.