Character Wealth Confusion

[0-hr]

I'm having trouble reckoning the character wealth gained through adventuring with the DMG pg. 135 chart.

For example, if a 9th level character joins a campaign, they are to start with 36,000gp worth of gear. The thing is, they get to custom pick that gear don't they?

Someone who has gone through various dungeons from 1st to 9th level is also supposed to have 36,000gp worth of gear. But that is all going to be random gear collected along the way. In order to get the same sort of custom gear the new guy has, the 'veteran' would have to sell his random gear and so would only end up with 18,000gp worth of custom stuff.

Doesn't this system, in effect, give new characters twice as much gear value as those who had to work for it?

 

[Runestar]

The thing is, they get to custom pick that gear don't they?

That is correct.

If you total up the average gp awards for each encounter over 9 lvs, you will find that you actually get 10-15% more gold than a PC who was generated at 9th lv. This is presumably to compensate for you having to spend resources on effects like raise dead, stone to flesh, bribes, consumables and the like.

Besides, not all "random" gear are going to be completely unsuitable for the players. I believe they will still opt to keep some of them, and maybe sell a part of the treasure they do get. This is something you will have to iron out with the DM, if your greatsword-wielding fighter keeps finding magical shortswords or something...

It should balance out in the long run (not perfectly, but the difference is not as great as you imagine).

 

[blargney the second]

When new PCs join the game I DM, I let the player use half the wealth as they wish, and I fill in the other half semi-randomly to represent items gained from adventuring.
-blarg

 

[Vegepygmy]

The thing is, they get to custom pick that gear don't they?

That's entirely up to the DM. There is no rule that says the player gets to custom pick his character's gear. Indeed, there is no rule that his character gets 36,000 gp worth of gear...or any gear. The wealth guidelines are exactly that: guidelines.

 

[Shin Okada]

Sometimes, I let other Players calculate total value of their gears (and coins), then use the lowest of them as the starting wealth of a new PC.

 

[Derro]

When new PCs join the game I DM, I let the player use half the wealth as they wish, and I fill in the other half semi-randomly to represent items gained from adventuring.
-blarg

This is the best way to go. In addition don't let any single item be worth more than 1/4 of the total wealth. Way too often players will buy one big item and a bunch of swag.

 

[Shin Okada]

When new PCs join the game I DM, I let the player use half the wealth as they wish, and I fill in the other half semi-randomly to represent items gained from adventuring.
-blarg

Well, if players like to create magic items, they tend to sell any items which does not fit to their needs and use gold gained to create or upgrade magic items specially tailored for them. In such cases, ongoing PCs tend not to be using most of the "random" magic items at all.

So it will depend largely on each play group and party, if having that much "random treasure" is reasonable or not.

 

[Derro]

I don't have a problem with people creating items, per se, but I think there should be some serious GM control in the process. There should also be a drastic diminishing return for selling magic items.

Too many times I've received magic item proposals that are totally legal but also totally ridiculous. You can place restrictions on a magic item until it is only usable by the character it is made for. This reduces the cost so dramatically that the power of the item is way beyond the scope of the current character level.

I'm not a big fan of the item creation rules as a player option but I think they are suitable as a guideline for what should be available. I've never allowed PCs to tailor-make items unless it is something very minor or it covers a serious deficiency of the character.

Unrestrained item creation is one of the major contributors to the imbalance of 3.x. I've always felt any such undertaking warrants scrutiny.

 

[Shin Okada]

Well, actually, I rarely allow PCs to create magic items not in DMG or WotC supplements. Still, when players can create items, they tend to create, say, items without "unworthy" properties. I mean, they never try to continue using +2 Adamantine Shocking Burst Greatsword. Nor trying to upgrade it. Instead, they tend to sell it and by mundane Starmetal Greatsword and start to add properties they really want, say, simple enhancement bonus, Holy property and such.

On the other hand, there are campaigns in which PCs have almost no down time for item creations. Many of the official campaign modules and bigger adventure likely to have this tendency. For example, during entire Red Hand of Doom campaign, players can only spend 3-4 weeks at best in city for shopping and crafting items. In Return to the Temple of Elemental evil, once PCs went into the main dungeon, basically, they can't buy/sell/create items.

So it is largely depend on each party, campaign and characters. That is why I tend to check existing PCs' equipment first, before just applying suggested starting gear value.

 

[Derro]

On the other hand, there are campaigns in which PCs have almost no down time for item creations. Many of the official campaign modules and bigger adventure likely to have this tendency. For example, during entire Red Hand of Doom campaign, players can only spend 3-4 weeks at best in city for shopping and crafting items. In Return to the Temple of Elemental evil, once PCs went into the main dungeon, basically, they can't buy/sell/create items.

The only published campaign I've run, start to finish, is ToEE and I found the magic items lacking. As I remember it many of the magic items in that adventure were keyed toward worshipers of the Elemental Evils. I liked that at the time because the antagonists could have a kick-ass weapon (usually a sword) that didn't work for the PCs. Regardless of the loot the PCs did fine. It wasn't TPK until the final encounter with the massive fire prince.

So it is largely depend on each party, campaign and characters. That is why I tend to check existing PCs' equipment first, before just applying suggested starting gear value.

Totally true. I tend not to use a lot of permanent magic items. Weapons of Legacy has gotten much use in my game. I like the feel of tailoring items to the character as a story element instead of just getting a bigger gun.